Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

Stupidest post ever

Inflation means the figures go up, but the value doesn't. So it's not "more money" it's (if matching inflation, which won't happen) the same amount of money just a larger figure.

Duh.

Yes, the alternative reality where SNAs leave to find jobs where they don’t get assaulted every day, where teachers leave for Dubai or Korea, where nurses leave for UK and Oz, where accountants are snapped up by auditing firms, where architects and engineers are snapped up by private practices. You seem to be living in a 1970s BBC sitcom world.

Funny how your unions can look for wage increases based on inflation that could well turn out to be temporary, even financial experts cant agree on this yet you boyos want your pay rises on this basis you must have Nostradamus working there in SIPTU :) good man

A victim with a short memory, if he’s forgotten about how public sector salaries were cut with no sign of full restoration.

Ah the paycuts one which was a contribution to a defined benefit - pension levy. pay restoration was a term frigged up by the unions to keep their members in check. Its a lie the actual pay restoration was the cuts after the ballooning of public sector pay by more than the doubling of the public sector pay and pensions bill in the 7/8 years preceding the crash in 08 , benchmarking anyone ? The IMF an independent body who underwrite our loans pointed out about the bloated wage in the sector which is why the cuts had to be made as they could not understand how the Irish people who had their private sector decimated could continue to pay the current rate of pay and of course this rate of pay was based on our record stamp duties, talking about that anyone seen how dependant we are on our corpo tax, if one or two of the big lads decide to leave Ireland then we are back in 2008 territory again. , You boyos have phucking short, selective memories and you are very selective with a lot of things, such as selective when trying to compare pay rises in the private sector "ah look at tescos 10% payrise I want that" and ignoring the 1.2 million private sector employees who will get zero pay rises this year. Then the next argument "Ahh but inflation is up over 9%" and then ignoring the previous 8 years where inflation was at 2% and pay per public sector employee went up by over 10%. Ah but the inflation of 2022 is so high and our lads in SIPTU have a crystal ball and are full on sure that this inflation is not temporary. What a load of nonsense inflation started because of supply chain issues from Brexit then Covid and then was exasperated by a war in the Ukraine all 3 of these issues will be gone at some point in the future which means inflation will reverse. As I say best to give tax cuts to everyone while the going is good, cant see it lasting for any longer than another 12 months.

Where is the lie in that. Go on where ?

What about the 8 years preceding our current inflation spike where ps pay per person went up by a ratio of 5:1 against inflation. Why was there no argument made for pay cuts by the unions in 2021 under the same paradigm and it may take 12 months+ to see inflation head into negative territory but it will as we are heading into a recession and inflation will fall due due to the recession and the fact that the 3 causes I outlined will be rectified at some point in the future. Also if Leo follows through on the third tax band then taxation measures will help tackle a good whack of inflation meaning pay claims should be a lot less.

Sorry the stats are there for all to see that we had deflation three times in the last 15 years 2008 , 2015 and 2018/2019 regardless of how much it was, It proves the point that it can happen, the argument could also be made that 2018 could of been worse only for the onset of Brexit and Covid no one knows what way things would of panned out, we were technically in a recession at the start of 2019. So I ask you the same question how do you know prices wont come back down? The answer is you don't. if we keep chasing inflation by upping wages for certain sectors its only going to exasperate the inflation issue and honestly I think the government giving tax breaks to everyone is going to worsen the recession when it comes and further increase inflation as its going to cause more inflation as people have more money to chase it. (Even if I would greatly benefit from the tax breaks) but I would rather everyone got some cash instead of the public sector thinking they should be first in line again.

1.2Million private sector workers or 60% are not getting pay rises in 2022 and you choosing 2007 as a date where in hindsight we were off the cliff without a parachute before the correction in 2008 is the year you want to choose REALLY? We couldn't afford our spend in 2007 and form that point onwards hence the public sector pay cuts that had tto be implemented soon after and the 240 billion we had to borrow from 2008 onwards. I based it on a year that most experts would agree the crash of 2008 was behind us.

So look we can agree to disagree IMO all optics point to a recession here in the next 12 months and what happened to deflation after the last recession? I will point you and the rest back to posts like this in 12 months time to see who was right or who had the better reception on their crystal ball. :)

So we have Gernany, UK, America in trouble (US already technically in recession), the costs are going to continue to rise for the next 6 months or so this was always going to happen after the covid lockdowns were our government borrowed 40billion to slap in peoples pockets to spend and has been lying in Irish bank accounts at record levels since the start of the year and we have had a burst of economic activity with eveything openeing up, yet already this summer consumer confidence is way down, peoples discretionary spend is down and businesses who were in trouble pre and during covid are going to hit the wall before the end of the year.

The economy has been over heated by borrowed money (which we will have to pay back with higher interest rates at some stage by someone in the future) 40 billion alone borrowed for covid. Its a pay increase not restoration, the public sector pay bill was too high according to an independent body the IMF back in 2008 they pointed this out to our government and said it was too much and had to be cut and that you had to pay something towards those guaranteed pensions so the pension levy was a contribution to a defined benefit and not a pay cut. Pay restoration was a phrase coined by the unions and the government who's own pay goes up with every pay rise jumped on the phrase. Only in the public sector can the following occur

a pay rise is pay restoration

a pay increment is not a payrise

and a contribution to a defined benefit is a pay cut.