IRFU Transgender Women Policy Change

The IRFU are a sporting body, they set the rules for that sport. Just how exactly is that ideology especially as the decision has been made off the back of scientific evidence?

What is low level bullying?

I don't think anybody would complain about a woman who was born as a man playing men's rugby. Rugby is a game for all shapes and sizes afterall

This is completely missing the point. The tenet of the IRFU's ruling is based on peer reviewed science on the issue. Which I assume i physiological differences between a transgender woman and a female in the general sense.

A quick internet search and I found the following peer reviewed article -

Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage

Where the following was found -

"[T]he performance gap between males and females becomes significant at puberty and often amounts to 10-50% depending on sport. The performance gap is more pronounced in sporting activities relying on muscle mass and explosive strength, particularly in the upper body. Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed. Sports organizations should consider this evidence when reassessing current policies regarding participation of transgender women in the female category of sport."

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Australian Transgender Guidelines for Sport, Part 1: Biological Perspectives, Fairness, and Physical Safety in Women's Sport.

"Although such research is in its infancy, findings point to ongoing superiority of TW's performance and innate biological advantages compared to cis women, despite lowered testosterone with hormone suppression therapy. We assert that sports bodies should pay greater heed to the biological facts and continue to seek research to support participation policies. In the meantime, we argue that the current transgender participation guidelines be withdrawn, and that sports organizations explore other fairer solutions to facilitate inclusive participation for trans athletes."

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Basically the science says trans women have an unfair competitive on general females, and in sports like Rugby there is further safety issue. Think of it from a female rugby players perspective, you train hard in your sport get to a high level. All of sudden a transwoman is parachuted in and is unplayable as an opponent. I am thinking of Jonah Lomu if he had decided to become a transwoman and play female rugby what would have happened?

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Also has anyone asked the two trans people that play female rugby within the IRFU what they think? It seems to me that a lot of people to be speaking on their behalf, but no one knows their views.

Are they happy enough to be able to play tag Rugby with the women? Or would they be willing to run to play in males Rugby?

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I really don't see the fuss overall, it is not as if the two individuals are completely prevented from participating in Rugby completely.

How am I trying to make people feel bad for having an opinion I disagree with?

Nobody is saying they shouldn't be accepted for who they are.

The agenda is people ignoring the basic facts of the issue to turn it into something it is not.

Just like <checks notes> you keep doing.

This is also a strawman. You are deliberately misrepesenting my point.

What was your point?

I read the same as the others in your original post and asking if they were the bedfellows people want was clearly trying to put all people who disagree with you in one basket.

You conveniently leave out that women who play rugby are also against playing with transwomen.

Post #162. You are welcome.

Not quite true. People in this thread have said that they shouldnt be accepted for who they are plus trans people have been misgendered and trans women referred to as males...

You need some lessons in statistics if you're going to draw conclusions from a sample size of 2.

Mis-gendering does not exist. Its like mis-aging someone. Either it is their age or its a mistake. Telling someone you are younger than you are, or falsifying what your age is in writing, doesn't change the reality that you were born at a particular time, on a particular date and that will be the case for all time.

Trans women are trans women. They are biological males to the core of their cells and there's not a procedure yet, short of magic, or an act of God that can change that. And as neither of those exist, they're out of luck.

Yes, people can experience gender dysphoria and feel like they were born in the wrong body and want to live their life in the body they identify with, rather than the one in which they were actually born and its a great thing that there is science and technology to support them in that. It gives people peace, relief and confidence and no one should be denied that.

But at the end of the day, the science is only changing their superficial selves, it doesn't offer them a natural female hormonal level. It cannot install in them a female reproductive system, or any other female gender characteristic like a skeleton developed to birth children.

Tran women and indeed trans men, ought be let live their lives how they please, just like the rest of us, without harassment or exploitation. But they are trans women and trans men. False appropriation of a biological status which they are not, is bogus and an act of delusion and denial which I believe only worsens mental health over time, not to mention the marginalisation of biological women in the process, by simply demanding that womanhood is whatever anyone says it is.

Time to draw a line under the falseness and the delusion.

Can we just deal with the issue at hand rather than lowering the thread to this sort of right v left nonsense please? I would consider myself left leaning politically and an advocate of LGBTIQ+ rights along with supporting many other socially liberal initiatives. But the idea of trans women participation with women in any sport is absurd. It devalues women's participation in sport and is downright dangerous in many disciplines. Women's participation in sport is greatly threatened by this sort of nonsense and your reductive stance on this in bringing it into some sort of left v right argument is a complete strawman. Thankfully you've stopped short of referring to us who see the logic in the IRFUs decision as Trumpian.

I read a poster on another rugby forum allegedly name them but the moderators banned the user and deleted the post.

Its worth noting that the players (supposedly) named weren't playing at AIL level. One was playing at a very junior level.

Personally I feel that if they aren't playing at an elite level their name should be left out of public discussion.