Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

Options
14024034054074081062

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    No off that answers my question where in Ireland should a nuclear plant be built and when will it be operational if construction started this year and just for pig iron what price per kw should the government garuntee to for the next 50years



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    I'd happily have a nuke in my county. If you're on the east coast Sellafield and Hinkley point are practically in your back yard anyway. As for the price per kWh -- we could start with the price the UK is paying for Hinkley Point ... it would cheaper than the price we just agreed for onshore wind for the next 18 years!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    If I am summing up correctly, you believe your governments are corrupt and its state agencies are incompetent across a wide range of disciplines. i.e. If you put the Irish government and it's agencies in change of the Sahara desert there would be no sand left. Do you believe the government when it sets the following targets?

    In pursuit of this goal, older power stations that can store fuel for 90 days are being shut down, leaving the country dependent on imported gas via a single source, no local gas storage facilities, and a 500 KM extension lead to French nuclear power (that's without considering Électricité de France generation troubles) and they want to increase electricity consumption with unreliable generation sources.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Who's purpose is served by turning rural Ireland into bog with roaming packs of wolves? Essentially the Irish government is intent on turning the countryside into a reservation.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    My point is that you are locked into a small scale mini-incremental change mindset and by the looks of things just downright anti-Greens and quite probably anti-renewables. I have no idea what 2025 will look like and neither do you despite your self-perceived expert knowledge but things are changing very fast. I have some of my own concerns about our path and what the direct cost may be to me but I am open to it. Aside from your extended rants about this and a determined need to prove other people wrong, what's your solution? Basing it on prototype technology is not really practical. It also leaves us perpetually beholden to the suppliers of hydrocarbons, which is our ongoing problem, and is very undesirable. It also does not give us any energy security to remain dependent on it a source of generation.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Rewetting and restoring bogs makes sense but the wolves thing never did and has been shot down. Like any of these proposed ideas it will not be as extensive as some hope for nor as bad as others claim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    Realistically a coastal county (for cooling). I’d even say Irish Sea side (less storm surges etc than off the Atlantic). So you’re talking north Dublin (maybe near balbriggan), Meath, Louth, Wexford, Waterford or cork. It would need to be close to a population centre as well for workers. Definitely a number of potential areas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We have been rats in the experimental maze run by Exxon Mobil et al for the last 50 years. That's how long they have known that their product was terraforming the planet but they lied and disinformed and delayed action to begin transitioning until now. We wasted decades.

    Europe is running out of water. There are global food shortages and crop failures. It's possibly going to be the hottest ever day today in ireland and we're only 1/3rd of the way into the warming we are locked into because of that inaction.

    Our plan is to build tens of GW of offshore wind capacity and solar over the next 10-15 years and to upgrade the grid to include battery storage.

    There is a small risk of energy shortages during the transition. But as we have seen with Russia invading Ukraine, security is an illusion and we need to be able to handle some disruption for the long term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    These prices are contracts for difference. The price to the consumer can be lower but the state agrees to subsidise the generation to that agreed amount (while the generators cannot charge wholesale costs more than that agreed maximum)

    The hinkley point power stations are going to be massively subsidised by the UK tax payer. The Nuclear industry are excellent at creative accounting while hoovering up subsidies and externalising costs. This is the real reason the Nuclear industry is in decline, not because of environmental or safety concerns)



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Not to mention the problem of the fossil fuel industry being one of the biggest emitters of methane just in the process of extracting the oil gas and coal, before we even get to the point where it is ready to be burnt as fuel



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 15,390 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    Thinking about it, maybe one the islands just off the coast, maybe Dalkey Island (lol! imagine the uproar from the "connected") probably not big enough, location wise it would make sense though.

    Have a weather station?, why not join the Ireland Weather Network - http://irelandweather.eu/



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Whiddy island? Sure stick it in with the oil reserves what could possibly go wrong!

    Post edited by tom1ie on


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    These prices are contracts for difference. The price to the consumer can be lower but the state agrees to subsidise the generation to that agreed amount

    LOL. A load of accountancy hocus pocus. The state doesn`t have a magic money tree. The tax paying public is going to be footing the bill either through electricity charges or tax revenue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,138 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    With the droughts in Europe now are there contingency plans in place for food shortages, crop failures, and general lack of water? I know the experts here will say these droughts happen all the time but this one seems particularly bad and one would imagine they'll only get far worse in coming years.

    We get lots of rain here but we also import lots of food and animal feed so things may get pretty bad before we know it, even if it's true that Eamon Ryan is flying business class.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Great, so even more of our electricity bills and/or taxes will be levies that we can't avoid even if we reduce consumption.

    The bottom line is that the UK gets a reliable nuke, while we get unreliable wind for the same price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306



    Spoken like a true alarmist.

    "Europe is running out of water."

    No it isn't, it's having a temporary drought.

    "There are global food shortages and crop failures."

    BS. I already posted the 2022 World Food Report on this thread. Almost all food security issues are to do with political and economic stability, not climate. The last round of food shortages was due to the global financial crisis caused by malinvestment in property markets. The current one is due to the Ukraine war. There's no doubt in my mind that an upcoming one could be caused by malinvestment in "green" energy.

    "It's possibly going to be the hottest ever day today in ireland and we're only 1/3rd of the way into the warming we are locked into because of that inaction."

    And plucky little Ireland is going to solve that single-handedly, is it? (Not that it's a problem -- god be with the days when a pleasant summer wasn't turned into a horror story by doom mongers).



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    We import very little animal feed from Europe. In 2019 we exported 14.5 billion of agricultural food and products compared to 500 million imported as animal feed. Of that total just 54 million came from Europe.

    I would see green policy being more dangerous to European food production as anything else with their ideas on organic food production, bans on herbicides and pesticides without any alternatives, and the resulting lowering of crop yields and higher food prices. We have already seen here with Irish greens the supposed value to reducing global emissions by culling our cattle herds while Brazil alone are increasing their by 24 million head.

    In fairness to the E.U. they do seem to be sitting up and taking notice on the effects some of those bans and other attempts are having on food production as their Commissioner for Agriculture, Janusz Wojciecowski, recently stated in Dublin that the E.U. have no interest in a reduction of meat or milk by E.U. farmers and that their main concern is food security.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    What I said about batteries is secondary school chemistry. You could try countering it instead of accusing me of being a "know all". I am not even slightly anti-renewables. I am against malinvestment that will reduce our economic resilience. Yes, I am anti-Green because they are the classic "green on the outside, red on the inside" authoritarian ideologues who will happily ruin us economically in pursuit of their agenda.

    My solution for Ireland is very different to a solution for the world which, unless you're Eamon Ryan with delusions of grandeur, makes sense for a tiny nation that contributes 0.1% of global emissions. I would continue with the plan for offshore wind, but have stringent caps on the strike prices we are prepared to pay. If it can't be built at a reasonable price, we don't want it.

    Meanwhile I would build Shannon LNG a.s.a.p, invest in gas-fired electricity generation, reverse the decision on offshore hydrocarbon exploration and go looking for indigenous supplies of oil and gas. I'd be on the lookout for whatever way the rest of the world lands on low carbon energy and be prepared to begin a transition when it's clear what way the wind is blowing. I would NOT engage in the ridiculous delusion that Ireland is going to lead the world in this area.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    They are havinng record rainfall in Autralia and South Korea. It will probably all balance out. Geological history tells us that as the planet gets hotter - because it's been a lot hotter than it is now - plant life thrives - photosynthesis being considerably more effective and productive at its optimum of around 24°C, rather than the current global average of 17°C, which is why we have fossil fuels in the first place. That being so, it follows that precipitation likely increases, because for plants to thrive they require an abundance of water.

    I think it stands to reason - if you heat up large bodies of water, you increase the amount of evaporation and the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere - a greenhouse gas vastly more potent and abundant than the piddling trace gas CO2 - More water vapour likely leads to more precipitation.

    So all this climate catastrophism focussed on food shortages is a load of nonsense. CO2 is plant fertiliser - the more, the better - greater warmth improves photosynthesis, geological history tells us that a warmer planet clearly doesn't turn into a desert with reduced rainfall, quite the opposite, it goes jungle, so reduced precipitation isn't a problem either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    When the planet was “a lot hotter” did modern humans exist. 🤔

    The drought in Europe is so bad that parts of the Rhine, a key industry transport route for Europe, is down to less than 2 feet and the barges draft is 3



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Why on earth would you think that ?

    A reliable energy source with no CO2 emissions and no multiples of nameplate capacity compared to an intermittent unreliable one with no idea of how many multiples of nameplate capacity that would be required for the same price, is a bit of a no brainer imho.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    No, that was before humans were around, but the average annual temperature in the DR Congo is 24.85°C. Not only do a lot of modern humans live there, plants thrive and it's not a dry desert, quite the reverse.

    The drought in Europe is a blip in time. I'm from Australia and a place where a summer would typically be 3-4 months without a drop of rain. A place known for a thriving agricultural industry and massive grain harvests.

    The greenie meltdown over a warmish, not particularly dry summer, is both amusing and alarming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    "The drought in Europe is so bad that parts of the Rhine, a key industry transport route for Europe, is down to less than 2 feet and the barges draft is 3".

    Unless you're attributing this to climate change, what's your point? Scare tactics? The shallows of the Rhein fall to low levels every year. Yes, this year is extreme but far from unprecedented.

    The lowest levels ever recorded on the upper Rhein were in 1585.

    In February 1585, the River Rhine at Basel became a runnel, leaving large parts of the river bed completely dry - a memorial shooting competition was held on the desiccated part of the river, and the famous physician Felix Platter even wrote a few verses about the unusual aspect of the Rhine (Pfister & Dietrich, 2006)

    The upper Rhine gets its low water season in winter when all the precipitation falls as snow. The lower Rhine, in the pluvial regime, has low water in later summer and autumn. Here are "laufenstein" on the Rhein in 1901:

    Laufenstein ("run stones") and Hungersteine ("hunger stones") were the names given to the boulders that appeared at low water. Inhabitants on the Elbe carved the drought years into the stones -- 1417, 1616, 1707, 1746, 1790, 1800, 1811, 1830, 1842, 1868, 1892, and 1893.

    "Wenn du mich siehst dan weine ... when you see me, then cry!"

    The 20th century was a period of historically unusual high flows. The lowest flows were during the Little Ice Age.

    The KLIWAS project (2009) investigated the effects of climate change on waterways and shipping in Germany. KLIWAS comes to the following conclusion: "With regard to the low water extremes, this means a significant increase in discharge and thus moderation for the southern Rhine area, where the winter months are usually the time with the lowest water supply for surface waters. North of the Main, on the other hand, the months with the lowest water levels are in late summer and autumn - here there is an undirected, sometimes even slightly decreasing trend in the low water extremes. However, this slight intensification of the low-water extremes in the northern Rhine basin is so weak that it cannot be statistically substantiated as being significant"


    The CHR held the international symposium "Low flows in the Rhine catchment" on 20 and 21 September 2017 in Basel, with 70 participants. The focus was on the exchange between science and practice and dealing with hydro-climatic processes and parameters and the effects of low water. For instance, the first results from the ICPR and ICPMS Expert Groups on low water and information from the CCNR on the effects of low water on shipping were presented. In addition, examples of monitoring, management and moderating measures were shown.

    It also became obvious at this symposium that although the low water events on the Rhine have not worsened in the last 100 years from a hydrological point of view, today they have a greater impact on numerous uses (shipping, industry, agriculture, energy production, etc.). It is assumed that the demand for water and the socio-economic influences are increasing in the Rhine catchment area. It is assumed that in the future there will be more frequent low water events in summer in conjunction with higher water temperatures.


    Refs:




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    LOL. Accuses people of using anecdotal evidence ... and then trots out a boatload of anecdotal evidence. Plus, the mandatory little jibe:

    "However, the same arguments are also used by climate change deniers who spread misinformation about the crisis now facing the planet."

    Is this the so-called "crisis" ? ...

    A recent study in Science found that a person born in 1960 will only experience four major heat waves in their life, while a child born in 2020 will experience 18

    Climate change is significant. It is not an "existential crisis". An existential crisis, by definition, is one that threatens existence. I'm getting thoroughly fed up with people who trot out "muh existential crisis" whenever they are asked pertinent questions. This is the TINA response. It's a pathetic tactic to shut down challenges to questionable policy decisions on the basis that all action -- no matter how costly and ineffectual -- is justified by the "crisis". It really isn't. Policy responses have to:

    • actually achieve something,
    • yield a greater benefit than the same resources expended elsewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I do not know where you are living, but this Summer was nothing to write home about in the West of the country. Quite a few evenings in June we had the fire on because of the chill, the July "heatwave" lasted a day and a half. We were more than due a decent week to get the turf home dry for the Winter. Lads out cutting bog this year I have never seen on a bog bank before, so this week was a boost and an encouragement for them for them. Not to mention their wallets. Free fire and no carbon tax either.

    I cannot see many, if any, paying carbon tax on turf this year anyway with retail and on-line sales banned. Doesn`t look as if Eamon thought that one through either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You had the heating on in June?

    I think we've found the soft link in the chain



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    We had a fire on a few nights in June as it was quite chilly.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Kilkenny had 27 days over 25 degrees in 1995, I'll leave this here... Bunch of scaremongers



Advertisement