Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

kernkraft500 · 08-08-2022 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446344#Comment_119446344

This...

There are examples of all scenarios happening in the past.... and if routing across the Atlantic allows, they will stop somewhere en-route...

But, numerous factors come into play... crew flight time, ATC clearances and slots, cost of landing,departure and refuelling at stop off, capabilities at requested stop off...

you can even get a rollback to stand for refuel and re-clearance, but if the airport is busy it might not happen, as the Fire Service need to be deployed for re-fuelling a full passenger plane, and simply fuel truck may not be available, which eats into the crews ops time

sometimes its just less of a headache to cancel

Brendan Bendar · 08-08-2022 8:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446344#Comment_119446344

I know that……that’s what I have been pointing out since my first post.

If as the boy said ATC were told the flight would have to be cancelled if a change of r/w was not forthcoming.

It wouldn’t in my opinion, there are other alternatives if the operational constraints did not impinge on it.

LXFlyer · 09-08-2022 7:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119446809#Comment_119446809

None of us can answer that, as firstly we were not party to the conversation, and secondly as I say it would be something that only the company management and crew on the day would decide and maybe that discussion had already taken place internally.

Even if the poster concerned did hear the discussion, do you really expect people to answer that level of detail here on a public forum? There are limits to what people will and can post here in terms of what they may hear within an organisation.

Brendan Bendar · 09-08-2022 9:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119447798#Comment_119447798

Thanks Lx…….but experienced as you are you and the others are missing the point.

I am not speaking about the nuts and bolts of this particular event,per se.

What I am saying is that cancelling the flight,as threatened, cancelling the reciprocal ,discommoding 500 or so travelers in the event of no resolution of the r/w request, is not, I say again, not, the only solution .

To cancel or threaten to cancel a flight as the boy’s post indicated, is the nuclear option.

There are OTHER options, they might not be suitable for a particular situation, but should be considered.

Bit like the Brits threatening to nuke Belfast if the protocol was’nt sorted out.

Thats all I’m saying………..taking some time to sink in though!!

LiamaDelta · 09-08-2022 10:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119448040#Comment_119448040

You are quite literally talking about the 'nuts and bolts' of this event and drawing conclusions to all similar events whilst earlier saying that all events are different.

Why not assume that they were considered and were not suitable. Everyone in the business knows that getting people from A to B is the purpose. No pilot wants to discommode passengers. It is most likely that they considered all options and this was the last resort.

LXFlyer · 09-08-2022 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119448040#Comment_119448040

But my point is that none of us know what processes happened internally before that point is reached.

No airline would cancel a flight without going through different options first.

With all due respect you are going around and around in circles here - no one other than internal Aer Lingus operations would know what options were considered.

goingnowhere · 09-08-2022 10:47am

Ultimately its DUB ATC trying to hold onto 28 with a tailwind which goes against all sense.

True landing on 28 is shorter track miles for most, but equally a departure of 10 is a shorter routing heading outbound to almost all routes out of Dublin bar TATL.

Hopefully having two runways will lead to a change in attitude

Irish Steve · 09-08-2022 12:21pm

At the risk of adding fuel to an already heated discussion, there is also the issue of the proximity of the boundary between UK and Irish airspace, and which runways are active at the major UK airports like Heathrow and Gatwick, and Manchester, in that if they are using westerly runways, the routing of traffic can affect how departing and arriving traffic at Dublin is routed, to avoid complex issues keeping climbing and descending flights suitably separated over the North of England and on the main routes into the North Atlantic track system, as there's not enough airspace the Irish side of the FIR boundary to enable the descent to be started in Irish Airspace, so the UK ATC system has to coordinate their activities with the Irish system, so a runway change has to be notified a bit ahead of time to enable the UK to get their planning in place.

Brendan Bendar · 09-08-2022 3:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119448261#Comment_119448261

Aaah at long last the penny has dropped, none of us indeed know what went on before the event.

There are other options which I tried to highlight which might interest those who subscribe to this site.

Hope that was ok.

CoisFharraige · 09-08-2022 5:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119448907#Comment_119448907

Landing direction at any U.K. airport has no impact whatsoever on routings to the Shannon FIR. At most, a different SID which ends up at the same waypoint is used.

Runway changes (at the Dublin end) is a mere phone call from the station manage to the AC Lakes coordinator notifying them of such, it just means the top of descent is moved 20/30 miles west for easterly operations at Dublin.

The proximity of the FIRs actually has much less of an impact than people think seen as the U.K. has delegated large portions of its airspace over the Irish Sea to Dublin ACC (and vice Versa).

kernkraft500 · 09-08-2022 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119448907#Comment_119448907

The XMAN and AMAN systems are there to feedback to the IAA to slow and descend traffic in Irish airspace before it enters UK airspace...

As free routing is pretty much used all the time in Irish airspace, it shows they have more airspace to manoeuvre than in UK airspace

CoisFharraige cleared up the rest of this non sensical post

10-08-2022 9:58am

A large amount of info, including charts etc, on the new runway, now up on the IAA's website

https://www.iaa.ie/air-traffic-management/aeronautical-information-management-1

See especially amendment 2022 018

CoisFharraige · 10-08-2022 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119452693#Comment_119452693

Seems to largely be a well thought-out commencement and the staged process is a good idea despite some of the operational hiccups the ANSP were having throughout the year with training/sims. Hoping for smooth segregated runway Ops for 2022!

Qaanaaq · 10-08-2022 4:55pm

Is the new runway opening tomorrow?

10-08-2022 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454977#Comment_119454977

No, the 11 August is an AIRAC publication date. A NOTAM will suspend the implementation until the opening date

AIRAC - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeronautical_Information_Publication

NOTAM - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOTAM

kernkraft500 · 10-08-2022 6:05pm

I vaguely remember seeing somewhere it's the 23rd or 28th August

edit: 24th according to here

» ILS Testing at Dublin Airport (flyinginireland.com)

trellheim · 10-08-2022 9:32pm

Cant come soon enough was sat waiting for a while to get off on 10R this afternoon with 6 in front of us and 6 to land

kernkraft500 · 10-08-2022 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456177#Comment_119456177

it's crazy, I was in the airport recently and counted 10 taxing or lined up for take off, with others still landing.... and we're not even at peak numbers

Qaanaaq · 12-08-2022 3:19pm

I wonder who will have the honour of the first landing or take-off ?

kernkraft500 · 12-08-2022 3:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119464224#Comment_119464224

probably some transatlantic Aer Lingus complaining about fuel burn

Staunton96 · 12-08-2022 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119464224#Comment_119464224

One of the early morning rush I imagine! Will be interesting to hear on liveatc :)

moonshy2022 · 12-08-2022 8:39pm

Ryanair non rev departure

HTCOne · 13-08-2022 12:23pm

Would he really care? He has always been fairly caustic about aerosexuals.

Chris_5339762 · 13-08-2022 12:42pm

I reckon it'll be a new-ish Aer Lingus plane. The governement won't want Ryanair getting on the spoils of the inevitable RTE News report. It'll be an Aer Lingus plane.

markpb · 13-08-2022 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467435#Comment_119467435

That would be the most perversely childish decision if it was the case.

Chris_5339762 · 13-08-2022 3:05pm

Which means it'll probably happen 😂

Whether its the first plane or not, I would put money that mostly Aer Lingus planes will be shown, and if there are any interviews with an airline, it'll be Aer Lingus. Something something transatlantic.

EchoIndia · 13-08-2022 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467435#Comment_119467435

They are both private companies. Why would Government have a preference nowadays?

HTCOne · 13-08-2022 3:35pm

What normally is scheduled to arrive around 7am local on a Wednesday morning? That’s where to start guessing. Unless someone has scheduled and coordinated something unusual then it’ll come down to whatever sequence is presenting itself to Dublin ACC in the run up to 7.

13-08-2022 4:01pm

Is it not opening at 9AM at the start and eventually getting to 7AM?

HTCOne · 13-08-2022 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119468105#Comment_119468105

Ah maybe you're right (I don't work in DUB). whatever the sequence at 9 is so in that case.

Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Comments