What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

Igotadose · 13-08-2022 8:43am

An interesting analysis of what the charges mean. The espionage act violations, relating to 'top secret' documents found at Mar-a-Lago, aren't avoided by claims of the documents being declassified. That doesn't matter as some of them described items that are 'relating to the national defense.' So, if they found plans to new nuclear missiles that are top secret, one cannot just leave them laying around even if they are declassified.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-trump-indictment-over-mishandling-classified-documents-is-now-a-very-real-possibility

There's also this timeline in that link:

When the DOJ emerges from the quiet period after the November 8 elections, the next logical step would be an indictment, which might include charges other than violations of the Espionage Act.

As always with the law, time moves slowly. I doubt anything happens before the end of the year.

Igotadose · 13-08-2022 9:02am

Saw this on a message board from a navy veteran. No reason to doubt the truthfulness:

Boggles · 13-08-2022 11:33am

How can they be sure these documents have not been duplicated and already given to the person or persons that wanted them?

This could be extremely serious for Trump and circle, there is no plausible non nefarious reason for him to have those documents.

including some marked "TS/SCI", a designation for material that could cause "exceptionally grave" damage to US national security.

That's a different level of trouble.

Even if Trump is now saying the documents were declassified because of his magic powers or whatever other obvious BS he is now spouting, why did he have them is the question he will to have answer.

TheValeyard · 13-08-2022 11:37am

If what's been reported is true then Trump is utterly fcuked. But the next question will be, how compromised is America?

duploelabs · 13-08-2022 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467255#Comment_119467255

They're apparently dusting the documents for prints to see who's handled them

astrofool · 13-08-2022 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467255#Comment_119467255

If "declassified" does that mean they should be available to the public as well?

Boggles · 13-08-2022 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467276#Comment_119467276

Good question.

TheValeyard · 13-08-2022 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467276#Comment_119467276

I've no Idea.

Are they're different levels of declassified? Like from Top Secret to Confidential level, all the way to public knowledge?

I'd say the sh1t we never hear about is unreal. Probably better off not knowing either!

Boggles · 13-08-2022 11:52am

What is also hilarious is the Republican fúckwits who are coming out with every excuse under the sun to defend him.

They have no idea why he has these documents either.

IF I was one of these opportunistic snakes, this is one I wouldn't be available for comment on.

Would be telling which one of the senior ones have been on "holidays" since this happened and are not reachable.

astrofool · 13-08-2022 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467289#Comment_119467289

Just from a quick reading, there is a 10-25 year wait for documents to be declassified (put in place by Obama) but this can be longer, depending on the document. Can't find anything to say that a declassified document shouldn't be available publicly (how would that even work?).

But it does put trump in a bind (which his supporters will find hard to argue, but will try), if they are declassified, then trump himself can release all the details, him not releasing them implies they aren't declassified thus he committed a felony. They will be like Schrodinger's tax return.

Podge_irl · 13-08-2022 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467318#Comment_119467318

Declassified is not going to be the same as public. There are procedures in place to formally declassify things, but as with many aspects of the Trump presidency norms are not necessarily the same as laws and in reality the President does have full authority to declassify anything.

That being said, he does not have full authority, particularly after he is no longer president, to just essentially steal whatever documents he wants - declassified or otherwise.

In a normal world this would be enough to simply disqualify him from running in 2024 purely politically, but those norms are again basically broken.

valoren · 13-08-2022 12:35pm

If a document was Top Secret and was then determined to be Secret then technically it has been declassified as it goes down a security level?

So it's appealing to tout declassification to deflect via implying that it doesn't make it seem as serious.

TheIrishGrover · 13-08-2022 12:38pm

The silence is deafening

everlast75 · 13-08-2022 12:40pm

It doesn't matter if it is classified or not.

Podge_irl · 13-08-2022 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467415#Comment_119467415

Potentially I guess, though the idea that Trump would do anything that nuanced is amusing. The problem ultimately is that the system is not designed for a President to just randomly shout that "all this stuff is declassified now, I'm taking it home" but its not necessarily something technically he can't do. Ultimately he's too impetuous and stupid to really understand what he's doing.

It being declassified ultimately isn't the complete defence they seem to think it is though.

Igotadose · 13-08-2022 12:44pm

Plus, as we know after so many examples, if TFG says he declassified them - he didn't. It's a lie. That would take work . Work is a 4-letter word to that guy.

The only thing that saved the US during TFG's administration is the man's inherent laziness and stupidity. And maybe it didn't if these documents are scary and ended up with whoever - did the Taliban visit Mar-a-Lago during their treaty negotations?

Didn't they find PRC operatives roaming around Mar-a-Lago at one point or a woman who was a 'member' and turned out to be a spy (and f*cked off to China?)

everlast75 · 13-08-2022 2:30pm

It doesn't matter if it is classified or not.

This is like the GOP saying no collusion and people getting drawn into debating whether there is collusion or not, when it isn't a crime and will never be proven.

Classification is irrelevant. The fact he had the docs is the issue.

everlast75 · 13-08-2022 2:50pm

Seems like they don't know which line of bullsh1t to trot out...

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1558278592760614912?t=5jjJpPLFu0qJvRlS3XTB6Q&s=19

briany · 13-08-2022 3:29pm

The Republican party has no choice but to defend Trump no matter what he does. Well, if they want to remain electable, I mean. A couple of days of silence while they figure out how to pander to the cult of Trump without putting themselves in the legal line of fire. I'm not sure how this will be done just yet, but have to think it will feature a hearty dollop of equivocation.

13-08-2022 4:08pm

MAGA supporter are so brainwashed this really won't matter and the Republican Party are so far into Trump without protection and have caught every nasty thing he has and now they can't afford to back out as they will lose those MAGA voters so it's ride it out bareback balls deep to the very nasty dirty shameful end.

America is honestly fcuked for generations to come there is no way back the grand idea of what America once stood for that is long dead and buried.

TheIrishGrover · 13-08-2022 4:16pm

Any news on Hunter's laptop? Lol

Come on folks, I'm giving ye a chance to reflect, here. 😃😃😃😃

Hunter's Laptop.

Lock her up.

But Hilary...

No bites?

Overheal · 13-08-2022 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467255#Comment_119467255

I believe that the intelligence community already has evidence the data he had has been copied and circulated in the wild. It would make sense for why they were willing to accept the fallout from the raid.

Overheal · 13-08-2022 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119468173#Comment_119468173

No “voices of reason” today. Shame, I’m all loaded.

Feel bad for the pundits. They have to do this even on a **** day.

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1558165868558835713?s=21&t=adwQqLFiZG46ZXHzjt37Kw

won’t find any boxes in hunters laptop

Overheal · 13-08-2022 5:18pm

The only other 2 times Trump was this quiet: Impeachments.

https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1558463987079159808?s=21&t=adwQqLFiZG46ZXHzjt37Kw

TheValeyard · 13-08-2022 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119468356#Comment_119468356

Even if it hasnt, they have to take precautions and operate on the assumption that it has.

everlast75 · 13-08-2022 5:27pm

When your lawyer needs a lawyer.....

banie01 · 13-08-2022 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119468356#Comment_119468356

I'm pretty much of the same opinion. There is clearly corroborative evidence that information held in the files Trump took has popped up in the wild.

That doesn't draw a clear inference that Trump was the leak, but it does mean that the likelihood the info came from MAL is high.

I would guess that the appearance of such classified info in the wild was likely the probable cause presented to the judge as part of the warrant request.

Itssoeasy · 13-08-2022 6:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119468480#Comment_119468480

Trump himself may not have leaked it but he did bring the documents to a place where they were easy to access.

As it mentioned staff on the warrant, I wonder how many of the staff will need lawyers like trumps own lawyer's need one ?

Igotadose · 13-08-2022 6:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119468772#Comment_119468772

Well, the RICO statutes apply in cases of obstruction of justice by a Criminal Enterprise... Hmm.

13-08-2022 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119468772#Comment_119468772

I would say that it wouldn't matter if he was the direct leak, he is ultimately responsible anyway because he took them into his possession and was responsible for them.

Same as the data protection officer in my work is ultimately responsible for any of the sensitive data that the company holds, and ensuring that when we work on it that it isn't misused, copied etc.

What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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