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Why did Trump take top Secret Nuclear documents?

  • 14-08-2022 11:58am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭


    Following the FBI raid it has emerged that Trump had taken multiple boxes of top secret documents relating to the US nuclear weapons program and kept them at his golf resort.

    When Trump was asked to return them, he deliberately failed to return these documents.

    Why did he do this?



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,209 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Probably just to piss off the feds, he is the ultimate troll after all, he loves the attention as all trolls do. It’s their fuel.

    pretty much every US president when their term is up, just disappears into the ether, odd speaking engagement or charity lunch. Trump is on TV giving his jaw some exercise every few days… nonstop practically.

    google ‘Donald trump interview’…the borefest of a human is all over the place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,294 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    For the same reason he held payroll info for US spies.

    Of no practical use to him, but? Immensely valuable to regimes working to contain US influence and reach.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,698 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Why did he take them ? I mean imo he did it because he’s never been told no in his nearly 80 years of life and that’s fine to a point when he was just a private citizen but when you’ve done what you like, how you like it all your life, with little to no consequences for your actions, then it’s not really a surprise that’s it’s come to this because he felt he could.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,275 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    The liberal WOKE media want you to think Trump took those top secret documents

    They were actually planted there by Hunter Biden



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    To clarify: the search warrant receipt that his lawyers signed showed a single box of TS/SCI (Top Secret material and Secured Compartmentalized Information, which is beyond top secret classification and is physical, inventory-controlled, airgapped intel) which was reported to be about 11 different articles of various things they can’t even otherwise confirm for reasons of national security but for which the media has anonymous sourcing suggesting it is nuclear weapon secrets as well as US spy and informant payrolls. Many military watchers are assuming signals intelligence too, which would reveal things like what secure communications the US is capable of decrypting and intercepting across the world. Information that, if leaked, could result in the immediate death of spies or informants, the damaging lost of signals intelligence sources, or even upend the status quo on Mutually Assured Destruction doctrine which, nobody needs to be told, is bad.

    For the moment we have no concrete proof of what SCI was taken and, ideally as regard the US, we will never have it confirmed. But DOJ has a 98% conviction rate and they wouldn’t raid TFG without having him dead to rights - either because informants at MAL tipped them off directly, or they accidentally returned some TS/SCI to the national archives earlier this spring (which was reported) or, even scarier potentially, they might have seen the TS/SCI leaked out in the wild since Trump left office.

    Wanna bet: he took a US top secret spy satellite photo of Mar a Lago? It would be so on brand of him. It’s not like he hasn’t leaked our spy sat capabilities and resolution etc. before. Perfect for his vanity, a lovely space-view of his “beautiful home”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    So the answer seems to be either immense hubris that recklessly endangered us National Security, or treasonous intent.

    Neither are a good look for Trump or his followers.

    The legal consequences of this remain to be seen but I'm just baffled that he thought he could get away with it. Is this just more of his 'I could shoot a guy on 5th avenue and get away with it' mentality?

    I mean if he had even just photocopied the files and returned them he would have had a better chance of getting away with it than just taking the documents and keeping them...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Don’t discount the possibility they WERE photocopies. Which would be a dead to rights situation. Making copies of TS/SCI? Snowden did this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    Lolz no they don't look at Obama he didn't disappear, neither did Clinton or Bush.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,226 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    One has to be quite simple minded to think that "Trump had taken multiple boxes of top secret documents relating to the US nuclear weapons program and kept them at his golf resort."

    He would have to be complete crackhead to keep incriminating evidence on his laptop and then willingly hand it over to total stranger...

    Oh nevermind, that is different story. Yeah, is he a crackhead to keep "nuclear weapons program" documents in his safe? Trump's safe is boring. I would be more interested to see what was in Epstein's safe.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, it's a matter of fact by looks of things so I concur, he has proven himself to not be the sharpest... Seems like you're trying to divert.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don't know what you're trying to say here at all



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Because he is profoundly stupid and thinks he owns them. He does not and never has understood the difference between governmental ownership and his own because he thinks being president is like being a medieval king.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,275 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    But Hunter Biden/Jeffrey Epstein seems to be the gist of it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,754 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Funniest post I've read in a while :) - genius!

    Would have worked even better if you'd said Hilary Clinton though.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Fox: “Judge who signed warrant had ties to Epstein case”

    Fox: “here to talk about Trumps political persecution please welcome Alan Dershowitz”



  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Can you link where the story of nuclear documents were found?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,209 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    imagine he was arrested .. be unbelievable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,209 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    None are front and centre every few days in the national and international media… they disappeared in the national and international context…did work, certainly, not courting publicity and espousing critical views on subjects of national and international importance non stop.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because his handlers asked him to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,185 ✭✭✭screamer


    Because he could,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Everyone wants their golden parachute when they get kicked out of a job, trump was lining his pockets



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Probably going to do a deal with General Zod to take down Superman



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,226 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No?

    Well, Biden's laptop supposedly held a lot of "evidence" about whole family shady dealing not to mention juniors drug and hookers escapades but somehow nothing happened to anyone... Epstein's safe also rumored to be stuffed with video and pictures of his visitors engaging in some shady business with his underage "friends and employees" - nothing of that ever seen light of the day... Now Trump's cellar supposedly holding boxes of nuclear weapons documentation, someone even mentioned nuclear "codes"...Throw in Loch Ness monster for good measure which supposedly exists according to latest "news"...

    This all show how most of the public is gullible and lap up every craziness spouted around because "if it was in the news it must be true" :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,841 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    It would be great to see that Clown arrested and even better when he eventually goes to prison. He is the master of his own downfall.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Investigations happen because of evidence, there is nothing yet to be seem from a credible source about this supposed laptop with evidence . Still yet to hear anything but whataboutery from the right in defence of trump potentially trading top secret documents with adversary nations



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,516 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Ex-presidents can make hundreds of thousands of dollars per speech on the after dinner circuit. True, it's not as much money as you'd get selling classified intel, maybe, but it carries no legal jeopardy either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Given trump's well documented inability to fill a venue, I doubt that's a bread winner for him. And he doesn't have much to say bar the debunked stolen election, the longevity of his speaking circuit wouldn't be great



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We know for a fact that Trump held documents that he wasn't legally allowed to have. Many of which put national security at risk. Hunter Biden has no relevance to the discussion. If Trump is charged, you'll probably go full q-anon with claims.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,516 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It's not like he's getting a percentage of the box office on those kinds of speeches. It's a set fee for speaking at private dinners and gatherings. Considering Trump got more votes than any other Republican presidential candidate in history, I'd say he'd be able to get enough offers to speak for big money to make it worth his while.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Trump is photographed multiple times with Epstein.

    Alan Dershowitz was Epstein’s lawyer. He defended Trump through impeachment. He’s on fox while they argue about the judges ties to Epstein.

    Hunter Biden is being Grand Juried, so nobody needs to get their knickers in a twist about Hunter. The DOJ has a 98% conviction rate and it has open grand juries into Hunter and DJT both. Let that sink in.

    After he left office the national archives asked for missing material back. This January he finally relented. The archives received 15 boxes. They alerted the DOJ when contents included items marked Classified and Top Secret. The DOJ empaneled a Grand Jury. The Grand Jury issued a subpoena for any and all of the govts property in this matter. His lawyers signed an affidavit in June, affirming to the government that they handed everything back. Either through informants, subpoenaed CCTV footage, or both, they then discovered, this wasn’t potentially the case. This week, the Trump lawyers signed a search warrant affirming that they just returned to the government even more boxes of classified and top secret SCI that they previously attested they did not have. They’re fucked: ‘we affirmed that we have given you everything back’ …2 months and an FBI raid later ‘…oh wait no actually’




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Still have no idea what you're saying. Trump hasn't denied that he took the documents.

    He's simultaneously saying that he had already gave them back He didn't) and that it doesn't matter because he had declassified them anyway. (No evidence of that not that it matters because he is charged under laws that don't refer to any security classification)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,516 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I don't believe Trump to be a truly stupid man, but he is at least a very ignorant one when it comes to politics and its associated rules and regulations. This is the same man who held a party in the Whitehouse rose garden after the repeal of Obamacare passed the House of Representatives, without seeming to care that it still had to pass the Senate (spoiler: it did not pass the Senate, thanks to John McCain). However, the act of taking boxes of secret documents back to his home when leaving office and not caring if anyone noticed, or have his story straight as to why he had them, or having really any kind of plan as to what to do if he got in trouble for having them is a level of not only ignorance but utter recklessness that I would not have ascribed even to Trump. His current flailing about heavily implies that he really didn't think this through, so I suppose I must revise my previous assessment of Trump.

    Can Trump wriggle out of this and if not, what's the likely timeline for him to go from teasing another presidential run to absconding and fleeing to Russia?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    In the same way that we worry what Putin would do if he felt cornered, I reckon Trump will lash out if there's any chance of personal consequences for all his crimes.

    He's been laying the foundations for civil unrest with his private army of heavily armed conspiracy theorists and these people are fully primed to believe this is a set up and a witch hunt against him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 858 ✭✭✭jolivmmx


    I am just waiting for Trump to tout himself as the antihero for the disclosure movement and allege that he has documents regarding Roswell cover-ups, etc

    Add in a relevant JFK Jnr theory, and you have yourself a secret sauce

    Whatever hard evidence they will find, he will allege that it is a smear campaign and that the truth is out there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 847 ✭✭✭Big Gerry


    Trump is out of office almost 2 years now I doubt the nuclear codes he has still work.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,516 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It is a concern the length his supporters will go to if they feel like their man is being unduly targeted, but at the same time, a lot of the people who broke into the Capitol seemed pretty dismayed when the reality hit them that their actions on that day carried a legal penalty. That makes me wonder how many people who claim to support Trump would actually pick up arms and go fight for him and how many are content to talk sh*t on Twitter.

    We know that there are at least some militia types who'd like to cause trouble, but their absence from the streets of D.C. after the military were deployed following Jan. 6th tells me they couldn't handle a direct confrontation. So long as there is a decent police/military presence at places where these types would threaten to congregate, I don't think they'll be able to do very much. Lone wolf attacks would be another story, but that doesn't quite translate to widespread civil unrest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I imagine there are criminal charges for that too. Disgruntled ex federal workers can’t just blab about what top secret materials they saw or the nature of them. Even if he lied about the contents, convincing reasonable people he was telling the truth would be damaging enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This is only one kind of nuclear data and besides that handing someone old nuclear codes ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND

    The codes rotate all the time. The methods don’t. It took years for the Allie’s to crack the enigma machine and it took top secret material (the machines and cyphers and signals intelligence) to totally crack it.

    with enough “old” data pieces together someone may well one day crack it and launch some off with a pirate launch signal.

    That’s setting aside all other manner of potential secrets: data about completely unknown of weapon systems and capabilities, anti-ICBM systems, or briefings like missile locations, deployment strategies and target packages, black site launchers, the number of dummies vs live warheads in our MIRVs. Weakness in and vulnerability analyses in our systems. Etc. The kind of data Russia etc could use to achieve First Strike

    Not something to leave laying around, no. Not by any means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 847 ✭✭✭Big Gerry



    I don't get what your saying ?

    Its like if I changed the password for my phone the old password would be useless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    It was nuclear codes? Where did you get that information?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    And if you changed your password all the time and just gave out your old one - code cracking experts would eventually figure out the style and method of your passwords and be able to more accurately predict what your next new password would be. Especially bad if you had no idea that someone was getting copies of your old passwords.

    Now imagine it’s the US nuclear arsenal (the one that can glass the planet 100 times over) at stake and not your phone



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    While it's improbable overall to regenerate the codes , the generation of the codes is programmatic so not truly random. So you're at minimum getting an idea of the format and length of such codes. No indication that is what he had but innocuous information can be powerful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,272 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Trump took them because he is a business man and he knows the art of the deal is having something no one else has and are willing to pay a lot of money for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The other things he stole are being presumed to be means and methods.

    eg. Top Secret: Russia has a new model nuke

    SCI: Russia has a new model nuke according to our mole in the machine shop

    it can even contain declassified information as well, but include compartmentalized means:

    declassified: Putin has a new girlfriend

    SCI: Putin has a new girlfriend, according to photos sent to us by his housemaid

    this sort of thing can get people killed in counterintelligence operations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I would say a mix of ego and stupidity.

    He'll be missing the power so wanted to take some with him. I'd say he'd be more bragging about having the info than selling it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,380 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Mod - Give the whataboutery a rest

    Any more 'But but Hunter Biden...' etc posts will mean a threadban



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Reminds me of the plot of Mission Impossible. Trump could have the equivalent of the NOC list, release of that could compromise all agents on foreign soil



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    That’s one of the things the newspaper outlets say he had: spy and informant payroll data.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,531 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    1. I didn't take them
    2. So what if I took a few documents, Obama/Clinton took some
    3. It's a witch-hunt
    4. The FBI planted those documents on me
    5. Fake news
    6. The Dems are up to something
    7. The FBI need to be investigated
    8. All of the above at the same time

    Always the same playbook.

    As to why he took them, he was openly fixated on the nuclear programme, kept revealing that the US had extraordinary nuclear technology, and wanted a return to the Cold war era stockpiles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Compare this to the clear plastic totes that came out of Mar a Lago:




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