Boy A in the Ana Kriegel case moved to adult prison

Maybe a fantasy in your mind… facts, grim facts back in reality, they murdered, tortured and raped her.

Boo hoo. So follow up. Do you mean to tell me no teacher noticed when groups of children stood en masse and left the table when Ana tried to join them? Were they deaf when the name-calling and sniggering occurred? Is a teacher not considered a reliable witness? It's bullsh1t to suggestt that teachers can't see what's under their noses. And the idea that you should treat a bully victim with doubt first and foremost is akin to suggesting that you treat a kid coming to you with allegations of sexual abuse the same way.

Kids who bully grow into adults who bully in the workplace, n organisations and in their families. The damage they do as youngsters can result in a lifetime of poor self esteem, anxiety, depression, ptsd.

Ana's bullying and lack of appropriate response from the school marked her out to these disturbed boys as someone of no value, that no one would give a fuk about and fair game for sexual assault, violence and murder. Her isolation and loneliness made her so desperate for a friend that she followed Boy B in the naive hope that someone was interested in her and promised the vague hope of acceptance. The bullying made her an obvious and easy target.

If schools have not learned from this horrific crime , worse, if they don't even recognise they need to learn something from it, it only point to how little real concern about the effects of unchecked bullying on their watch.

It was the same when this was in the courts. A clutch of posters hand waving away the murder, making a litany of excuses to minimize the case/defend the boys (called children for extra sympathy), saying the parents can't be blamed for how their spawn (sorry children) turned out and of course claiming everyone would protect their child if he was a rapist/murderer.

That mentality from those posters does give a good indicator of how these rapists and killers were raised. It was always someone else to blame not little angle boy a or boy b or the parents responsible.

Mate, calm down ffs, he died recently , end off alright, now chill out and go for a long walk or go for a pint in your local.

This is not a point scoring contest, yeah.

Pretty much all boils down to the same thing: treat people with respect even if they're different to you.

Where is it suggested that teachers dont follow up on things though? These are assumptions you are making. The point is it is actually very hard to prove many of these things due to the teenagers behaviour when they are following up. Often the students involved are friends again when the investigation moves forward - these are just the realities of dealing with teenagers. Im not excusing teachers from all blame, im just pointing out that it isnt always straightforward to get straight answers out of a group of adolescents - that shouldnt be a shock to anyone here. Anyone assuming that teachers just dont care enough to help is not being fair.

Re kids getting up en masse, yes that is wrong, but could it be missed in a large city school at lunchtime, yes it could, because no school has the staff the monitor every action of every group all the time - it just isnt a reality and that cant be helped unfortunately. Furthermore, teenagers wont generally do these things when teachers are nearby because they know it is wrong.

As for doubting a bully victim, that is simply not what I suggested at all and actually a bit nasty to insinuate. What I am saying is that people simply need to be open minded to all possibilities and not jump to any conclusions. What if the person complaining turned out to be the actual bully? Their getting in there first means you dont listen to another word from anyone else - that is just nonsense.

The truth of it is that while they are an easy target here, expecting teachers alone to be able to stop all bullying in schools is simply unrealistic. We heard an awful lot about the bullying the girl endured after the fact. This has to have come from schoolmates. Maybe if those kids were speaking a little earlier about these things they had seen, to a teacher or to their own parents, then these things would be easier to weed out. That is the key to stopping stuff like this eariler.

I understand what you say. In the broader scheme of things though, is that any good for the kids either? It isnt a natural environment for people to grow and develop. Unfortunately, that is just a reactionary response to a very tragic case. I wouldnt think that such an extreme policy is a positive development.

Re social media bullying, is that even within the remit of a school?

To my mind, the issue here is coming from the level of investment that is put into schooling children. That might be just a reality that we have to get on with, but I can say for definite, the level of observation that people are asking for here is simply not a possibility in the real world, while cameras cant be placed in all the places they are probably needed in to address things like this efficiently. We want big brother in cases like this, but people also have rights etc. It isnt a straightforward thing to manage.

While they were children when they committed the murder , they are now adults and should be named imo. I'm sure it's widely known in the wider area who they are anyway.

I'd imagine so. Actually after refreshing my memory via Google I can't believe they were 13. Still child protection should only last till 18