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Calvine, Scotland 1990. UFO photo hidden by UK released.

  • 14-08-2022 8:38pm
    #1
    Posts: 0


    You will find multiple threads across Twitter etc about this. Briefly put, the UK Ministry of Defence suppressed newspaper report and hid photos of a UFO in Scotland since 1990. The photo is widely available today. Further information has been suppressed until 2076.

    Nick Pope was the MOD investigator of the event.

    The original photo is here

    To help posters along, it is not a reflection in a lake, (thoroughly debunked), it is an original photo from the era (Sheffield Hallam Uni), it was taken near a little known USAF/ RAF base near Pitlochry.

    This tweet claims these are notes of the interview of the original witnesses and photographer; the memo below may have better provenance as the text has been quoted elsewhere.

    As the US Congress has passed legislation forcing UFO/UAP reporting on the US military and recently introduced wide reaching whistleblower protections for disclosure of material hidden from Congressional oversight, have we entered a new era in regard to this topic? And why all the effort in the past few years with this revelation of hidden documents now?

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Just on this topic, I was chatting to a guy I know two days ago, pub friend, don't know him too well, he's fairly old. But he recounted his experience of seeing the triangle UFO back in Belgium in the late 1980's. Huge, and silent, with the red lights underneath. The typical triangle that we all know now.

    He had never known of that iconic UFO at the time. I asked him was he very shocked years later as the iconic image surfaced from people's descriptions. Of course he was. I had to drag this out from him a bit. I don't think he was spoofing me.

    It was my first experience of hearing anything so specific like that at first hand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    someone fuked a fray bentos pie tin over the hedge.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’ll just add this link to a separate MOD witness statement in Scotland, more to the east in the same month and year.

    I have no idea what these things were or are but we cannot keep dismissing such reports out of hand. Remember this is 32 years ago and 14 before the USS Nimitz UAP encounter of 2004. Tbh, it’s very very strange.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    the first image is a fake though.


    the second image is real.


    jets sometimes tow angular shaped targets at high speed, for gunnery practice.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Experimental blimps ? Could be a proof in concept for stealth reduction on Radar any number of things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Paper Airplane

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,534 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Would need to see the 5 other photos. As with all unidentified photos it is of course low quality and unclear. Pity none of these things appear now, I was taking crystal photos (and footage) with my Samsung of the recent air-show.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We are told it is the best of the 6. I have no doubt that in an era of deep fakes and Photoshop that any footage taken today would face an avalanche of dismissal too.

    I’m dubious about this photo given its similarity to a famous fake from Puerto Rico. I’m curious about the fact that some who investigated it regarded it as a fake but since regard it as US advanced technology. There has been no sign of the deployment of such technology in the 32 years since and the US Congress and Presidents are unaware of it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The F117 was the first US stealth aircraft in operations. It was revealed to the public in 1988 and was used in the first Gulf War 1990

    A blimp is interesting because of the right hand side of the object seems to have some different shape. But the question then is how is it tethered to the ground and how did it ascend very quickly as per witness. Remember the MOD had the negatives.

    There’s a lot that lends toward fake here. But then you have that different witness report in Scotland later in the month. It’s very odd.


    My typing was off. F117 revealed to public 1988. Two years before this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Butson


    Some good analysis of the photo doing the rounds on reddit.

    Whatever it is - experimental technology or UFO, the photo aint faked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    What annoys me most. And I believe in extraterrestrial life. Is why all the geometric shapes. If you had Antigravity technology. Shape is irrelevant. That shape for example leaves a lot of the interior unusable. I mean angles like that are great for stealth against radar. But if you had gravity waves you could make the ship invisible to the naked eye via some kind of distortion effect.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Apologies for typos in post quoted. F117 revealed in 1988.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,534 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Photos were faked just as easily in the past. It's not difficult. For example, someone painted a UFO on some plate glass and took a photo of it with a background, it had people stumped for a long time until it was revealed.

    My point (as always) is that UFO "sightings" and "encounters" have decreased dramatically with the emergence of high quality camera phones. Likewise "ghost" sightings.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I will take that at face value and add that while it may reduce the fraudsters it doesn’t eliminate key reports. That seems irreducible.



  • Posts: 2,725 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It’s mad that in this era of smartphones and 4K video that the whole UFO thing has pretty much died out……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,534 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's an unidentified thing in a grainy photograph. And that's fine. Billions of people using film cameras and videos pointing at the sky for decades are obviously going to capture things we can't identify (or create them, which we are very good at doing)

    The problem is people making the extraordinary leap to hint it could be "aliens". It's on the same level as having a blurry underwater photograph and someone suggesting it could be a "mermaid".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Funny that the reconstructed photo omits the trees and fence. The original seems like a weird angle.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That goes without saying. Equally there is a weight of odd evidence whose deliberate misinterpretation as catalogued in the Australian file on the other thread raises even more issues.

    I find the weight of reports, the technical support for many of them, the highly trained and qualified observers for some of them raises large questions. The Galileo Project led from Harvard and the increasingly intrusive and tactically astute US Congress approach may throw more light. Quite honestly the USAF looks more and more to be in the spotlight. And whatever contractors they have.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,534 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed, however I'm coming from the opposite side. The number (weight) of reports means simply there are a number of things in photographs/video we can't identify.

    Likewise as for the credibility of experts, professionals and witnesses - people have demonstrated, regardless of background, that when it comes to the fantastic, they can either make stuff up or truly believe they've seen something (when they haven't). Again, to re-emphasize, in the 50's up to the 90's there have been millions of cases of abductions, sightings of "aliens", close encounters. Now that we all HD quality cameras in our back pockets, these have all miraculously dried up - demonstrating that millions of people, of all backgrounds, were lying, or believing something occurred that didn't.

    Galileo and SETI are the search for extra-terrestrial signals and have nothing to do with determining unidentified photos/footage.

    As for US congress - unsurprisingly there were few answers, and it was wandering into a bizarre area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,875 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    If you believe the evidence in the post you quoted is so strong that it goes without saying, then there could not be an equal weight of contradictory evidence.

    Definition of 'it goes without saying'

    it goes without saying

    said to mean that something is so obvious that it does not need to be said or explained



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    What evidence is there that the original photo was suppressed?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I was afraid you were going to go for correlation means causality with cameras. That’s a leap I doubt you would make elsewhere.


    Galileo Project has two goals and you have left out the first. Here it is:

    “To examine the possibility of extraterrestrial origin for unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP), by making observations of objects in and near Earth’s atmosphere, filtering out identifiable objects using AI deep learning algorithms trained on rigorous classification of known objects, and then examining the nature of the remaining data for anomalous characteristics.”

    This is not just looking for “signals”.

    The Congress got answers even on what it looked at so far. Out of 144 military sightings 143 could not be explained. It has turned up the heat considerably since.

    The most important gain so far I would hope is that the derision is over, the glib dismissiveness is over; both are founded on a presumption of knowledge. I can say I don’t know and that you don’t either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Can't wait for Avi Loebs super telescopes to get more pictures of flying pyramids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,827 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Whatever the truth is here, there are people who are entrenched in their views on these topics who will never accept any evidence that contradicts their position on the topic.

    Glazers Out!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is a very good question and you will note that I said “suppressed” not classified. The photo has not been seen in public since shortly after its production. The newspaper who received it never published it. I think “suppressed” is justified. The document trail apparently does not support “classified”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    You say suppression, I say indifference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,534 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    When we had limited access to weak film cameras/video cameras, there were a vast amount of "encounters" allegedly being reported. Now that we all have instant access to high quality cameras/video these encounters have almost entirely stopped.

    Likewise, every piece of footage or photograph happens to be unclear. 100% of them. That's approaching statistical impossibility. If we are having encounters with "aliens", are they just flying out of focus in every single instance someone has a camera/video camera? No, because many describe close encounters, slow moving objects, objects hovering.

    It's a bunch of unclear footage of unidentified stuff. Likely unidentified because the footage isn't clear.

    It's not like there's a bunch of saucers flying around "just out of focus" for 75 years. That's wishful thinking, which unfortunately becomes part of the equation for some people. And why not? It's exciting. Sadly it's just not logical.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    defense tech experiment mixing 90's vtol and early stage stealth tech.


    a harrier with a plywood and tinfoil halloween costume.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Secret tech.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I note you have abandoned your claims for the Galileo project.

    Logically, correlation does not mean causality. You know that.

    The statistical improbability is mentioned in the Australian govt file debunking the US dismissal of many reports. It works both ways.

    I still don’t know and neither do you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The conclusion that we don’t know and that we should not leap to conclusions is what goes without saying. The evidence is not conclusive on either side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    There are varying degrees of what is likely to be conclusive, visiting aliens is on the lower side.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Definitely a good starting point looking at all this. If physics has been upended to the extent that that would need we’re in a very strange place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,534 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I stand corrected on the Galileo project, from the perspective that they are not exclusively listening to signals but basically they are looking at stuff through telescopes. It's evidence of our curiosity, but not evidence there are "aliens visiting us", which is a subtext in this thread I am addressing.

    Not sure why you keep repeating the phrase "Correlation does not equal causality" - nothing to do with my points.

    If you are personally entertaining that some of these unidentified objects in the sky might be "aliens", okay, but that's called wishful thinking. We all do it, but in this case it's not logical for the reasons I've given.

    In my personal opinion, I believe there is life and possibly intelligent life out there in the universe. However do I believe that "aliens" are crossing vast tracts of space (and time) via interstellar travel to visit our planet and stay juuuust out of focus, every time, for 75 years? No, that's stupid.

    This is a cop out. There is no tangible evidence of "aliens", "ghosts, "mermaids" or "bigfoot", just evidence of stuff we can't identify. So just one side of it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have to correct further inaccuracy on the Galileo Project. It uses more than telescopes. Just read the website.

    The subtext for any discussion of UAP/UFO will always include the et hypothesis. Necessarily if you follow the evidence there are many possibilities. Given our current understanding of physics it is impossible for travel on that scale which makes it highly unlikely.

    I keep repeating correlation does not mean causality because you keep advancing an argument based on your assertion that because two events are related in time one must cause the other.

    I have no idea what some of the objects detected are. A great number of far more highly qualified people than you and I and other randomers here don’t know either. You’re making an assumption about me regarding “aliens”. As I’ve said previously the laws of physics preclude it. Just as they preclude detected objects moving in the way they moved. I see no reason to have wishful thinking about “aliens”. Who knows what such a reality would mean.

    I’ll repeat again that no definitive conclusion is possible. Yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You could publish 4K video footage from 10 metres distance with Dolby 5.1 audio of a UFO and no one would be any the wiser.

    The maths say that there are probably millions of sentient civilisations in the Universe. The maths also say, that the probability of those others a) finding us and b) having the means and/or the motivation to come to our Solar system particularly, are infinitesimal.

    So, the fact that UFOs were never a thing before Man himself achieved flight, and only became a truly widescale phenomenon when Man himself achieved military grade rocketry and, soon after, space flight, means all of these sightings are of some man-made device or other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,921 ✭✭✭buried


    United States Air Force base is it? Its a wonder the pilot of the fighter jet in the photo hasn't come out with their story of "how we don't know what this UAP is or was", y'know like the recent loads of similar stories.........I don't undershtand it at all at all at all

    Make America Get Out of Here



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭Elessar


    UFOs have been a thing since early civilisation. From multiple Roman accounts of flaming flying objects and chariots in the sky, to the middle ages with sightings like the Nuremberg spectacle, to 'airships with powerful searchlights' in the 1800s.

    The truth of the UFO/UAP phenomenon is likely to be far stranger than fiction. Having seen one myself many years ago, I know these things are real, the Pentagon and US Navy says they're real and now thankfully, Congress is looking into it very seriously. There are physical craft in our skies that manoeuvre in ways that seem to defy the laws of known physics.

    Whether they're aliens or not is another debate entirely. Some of the more prominent researchers in this field are of the opinion their origins are actually much more complex. One theory is that they are intelligences from another universe or dimension that exists right alongside our own, where they have the ability to move between them at will. And that how they show themselves while here can change depending on circumstances and prevailing culture. It's clear that some of this phenomena has the ability to change human conscious perception. Consciousness itself seems to be inexorably linked to it in some way.

    Another theory is that they are us from a distant future (indeed, this is what one of the military witnesses to the Rendlesham Forest incident was "told" by one of the beings). Another theory is that they could be "ultraterrestrials" - super advanced intelligences who have the technology to mostly avoid us but who've been here all along. Again another one is that some of the craft seen are US black projects run by private aerospace companies, who reversed engineered technology from crash retrievals. Believe it or not there's a fairly decent trail of testimony and evidence that "off world vehicles" have been retrieved by the US.

    There's other theory's too. But it's all speculation. What's clear is that UAPs are getting more, not less, spotlight and people are beginning to take them much more seriously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    All of the above.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,921 ✭✭✭buried


    If these things are in the vicinity of a United States Air Force base, then you can bet your bottom dollar they are United States military property. Just like when you go into the Irish countryside and see a tractor in a field, that's the famer that owns the field's tractor, or a contractor the famer has let on to his property. It's not fairies, it's not ET or Yoda or whatever else you are having.

    Make America Get Out of Here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Except for the US military and government releasing footage and stating that UFOs are real. Apart from that its dying out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭Roger Mellie Man on the Telly


    This has taken my brain to another dimension, pay close attention



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I think the salient point with a lot of these recent investigations was alluded to previously in the thread. Stealth technology was only revealed to the public in the late 80s after being operational for the better part of a decade. It's been quite some time since the US revealed any of its black projects level technology to the public. The most likely explanation for a lot of this stuff is something from that world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    How many decades have these flying saucers been spying on us...without any consequences whatsoever. You'd think they'd have finished their survey by now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,215 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Something has to fuel it…

    Good aerodynamics provide fuel efficiency

    Good aerodynamics help provide stealth and speed.

    look at Concorde, pointed nose, cambered leading and trailing edges on the wings. Overall sleek design.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,534 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    They aren't, they are saying these unidentified things, we confirm we can't identify them

    When you look at any of the footage, it's pretty clear why they can't be identified.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    “Most of the UAP reported probably do represent physical objects given that a majority of UAP were registered across multiple sensors, to include radar, infrared, electro-optical, weapon seekers, and visual observation.”


    As you like to go with probable I think that would indicate Ceadaoin is closer to the truth of the US govt position than you.



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