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Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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    #2702
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119476207#Comment_119476207

    Trump against what alternative? If he runs in against Biden he's a shoe in. Also, Democrats won't be able to rely on mail in ballots which helped Biden in the last election.



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    #2703
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,272 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119476521#Comment_119476521

    He didn't beat Biden last time, in fact by trump's own metric Biden won by a landslide



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    #2704
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119476521#Comment_119476521

    The point is that no one that was going to vote Democrat is now going to vote for Trump/GOP because of this.

    The fact that the GOP are doing everything they possibly can to gerrymander the hell out of the next Election is entirely secondary to the question of whether "This has handed 2024 to Trump".

    "This" has changed nothing in terms of the 2024 landscape so far.



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    #2705
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,389 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119476711#Comment_119476711

    Technically it may energise the 'don't always vote coz i'm too lazy, voted for Trump last time, wasn't going to bother next time' people.

    And if they vote, and the equivalents on the Dem side don't, then Trump only needs to repeat his figures from 2020 to win. So he doesn't necessarily need the Dem -> GOP swaps you referred to.



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    #2706
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,630 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    61338161-11107157-image-a-35_1660336381149.jpg
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119475786#Comment_119475786

    Proviso of "unless" noted. It's likely that the GOP will be the winner at the ballot and not Trump [if he chooses to actually stand for office right up to and after the ballot boxes are closed. If he does run, it'll be another spur in the side of the democratic party voters to turn out and WHA.

    Most people involved here would have already seen this. I took it from a Daily Mail article. It's worth noting the clauses on it instructing the officer serving the warrant to give a copy of the warrant AND a receipt for the property taken to the person from whom the property was taken, or leave the copy and receipt at the place where the property was taken. So some-one acting for Trump was served with a copy of the warrant and a receipt for property taken. As they have cast doubt on it's legality, this means Trumps lawyers will have to make court challenges to the warrant ASAP. If they don't it'll mean they accept the warrant and any evidence taken is usable in a trial of Trump in federal court.

    If he was tried and convicted, it raises an intriguing question: would he ask Biden for a presidential pardon?



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    #2707
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,406 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    "If he was tried and convicted, it raises an intriguing question: would he ask Biden for a presidential pardon?"

    He almost certainly would and Biden would probably grant it using the Nixon pardon as the precedent



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    #2708
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119476863#Comment_119476863

    That's fair , there's definitely a possibility that it drives increased participation , but I'd also say that the effect would be pretty equal on both sides so that might be a wash in the end.



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    #2709
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119477110#Comment_119477110

    Nixon was pardoned without ever standing trial (or even being charged) - It was a way of avoiding the trial process entirely.

    That shipped has sailed for Trump - No way he gets a "preemptive" pardon from Biden. Trump would spin it as a victory and that it was a sham all along and they never had the evidence etc.

    At best he might get a commuted sentence were he to get actual jail time.



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    #2710
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119477238#Comment_119477238

    Nixons pardon being along the lines of trying not to make a scandal of the office of president, but as you say that ship has sailed long ago with Trump. I'd say they would still be keen to not actually have a president physically incarcerated at this point and would at most give him house arrest, although ideally not with that house being Mar A Lago. Maybe send him to some house in the middle of nowhere in Alaska.



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    #2711
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Trump biggest punishment would be financial ruin and prevent him getting access to any funds.

    It might be better to do this at state level as he has friends in Supreme places.



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    #2712
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,630 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    It seems that Rudy Giuliani should expect to be indicted on charges of interfering with Georgia's election, He has been told that he is a target of the Fulton County DA's criminal investigation and is expected to testify in Atlanta later this week. A reminder to lawyers that being lawyer to the head of the family is not a good professional choice, even when one is the AG.

    Eric Herschmann, a former Trump lawyer and legal advisor at the White House who testified at the Jan 6 hearings has been subpoenaed to appear before a federal grand jury for testimony. Eric has history for correcting other Trump staffers, incl Sidney Powell, about their facts.

    Post edited by aloyisious on


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    #2713
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119477000#Comment_119477000

    No idea what point you're trying to make. Just incoherent nonsense about a presidential pardon or something???



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    #2714
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119476662#Comment_119476662


    Never said he "beat" Biden, what I'm saying is that Democrats can't rely on mail-in ballots or cv-19 which swung the election in their favour. Trump can rely on the 74 millions votes he got last time to win the election.



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    #2715
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119476711#Comment_119476711


    No, the point is that Trump can rely on the 74 million votes he got last time whereas the Democrats can't because they won't have mail-in ballots or CV-19...



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    #2716
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Mail-in ballots A) still exist and B) are perfectly normal votes



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    #2717
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,523 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478689#Comment_119478689

    Actually you're wrong, not a chance that the 74 million who voted for him last time will vote for him this time. If he runs he gets 50 million tops.



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    #2718
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The Republicans could run a Hitler themed inanimate carbon rod and get over 50M votes, let's not be silly here.



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    #2719
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,630 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478660#Comment_119478660

    Several points:

    The FBI didn't hand any election victory to Trump - more likely to the GOP - over the longer term way past the term of the 46th and maybe the 47th.

    Federal Jail-time and Trump won't sit well together. Ref my mention of a pardon for Trump, that will be needed if Garland sticks to his guns, targets Trump by way of criminal proceedings and gets him on the stand. There've been a few more deaths on the street amongst his followers, which won't sit well with law and order fans. The GOP will quietly go about ensuring the blame falls on him to save the party's ass from further damage by him, even if the Dems keep the house and the presidency.

    Trump rolled out his dead-in-the-water "Executive Privilege" claim over the documents, alongside another claim that he had some of his personal Lawyer/Client privileged documents in with the Govt documents the FBI took away, all in a vain attempt to get the whole lot back and keep the contents secret. As I understand it, one thing US law makes clear about declassified documents and that is that anyone who has them can publish the contents to the world without fear of legal consequences, letting the world know what Trump had secretly stored away in his home.

    I've been wondering whom the FBI informant is in Trump's Mar-A-Lago home, whether it's one person or two and whether they are more committed to the rule of law than Trump is, for professional reasons. I was surprised to hear one of Trump's lawyers penned a letter to the Archives people saying there were no more documents in Trumps home, only for a knowledgeable person to contact the FBI, tell it about the extra stored-away documents, contradicting Trump's lawyer.



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    #2720
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478801#Comment_119478801

    Not to the same extent and not with such loose controls.



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    #2721
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,630 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478689#Comment_119478689

    Covid-19 was and is an equal-opportunity disease, not something which expressly targetted GOP voters alone, leaving Dem voters untouched on the voting queues. As for mail-in ballots, they are important to both parties as they have voters working and serving abroad.



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    #2722
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    One aspect of USA elections - they do count the votes - all of them.

    No matter what the result, they continue counting - with one exception, Florida in 2000 - wrongly. That was at the explicit instruction of the US Supreme Court where the counting had descended into a complete circus.

    With Biden, the count continued, and continued, in tight swing states - despite numerous attempts by the GOP to stop any chance that those swing states could return for Biden. In the end, Biden won both the popular vote and the EC vote. There was no electoral fraud, and no US court has found any, despite many, many, attempts to show fraud.

    At least, the only fraud that came to light was a phone call from Trump to get an electoral returning officer to find a few thousand votes for him. Most recounts found no significant errors.

    However, gerrymandering is rife - particularly by the GOP.



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    #2723
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,272 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478689#Comment_119478689

    Trump has done nothing to motivate swing voters to vote for him, if anything he's alienated some, so to say he'll get the same amount of votes as he did in 2020 is aspirational at best



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    #2724
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Two basic questions which we still have no answers for:

    1: What we’re they looking for?

    2: What did they find?

    So far we’ve got some weak nerdy answer about some unreturned library books.



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    #2725
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479244#Comment_119479244

    Remember when Democrats said that Dick Cheney stole the 2000 election? How is he now -- eh, forget it.



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    #2726
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    ##Mod Note##

    Just a reminder to all , this is the Politic Forum and not After Hours/CA.

    There is an expectation of a higher standard of response here.

    Glib one -liners and attempted put-downs are not acceptable here.

    Up the standards please.



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    #2727
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,406 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479403#Comment_119479403

    We do have answers.

    1. They were looking for the classified records that Trump removed from the White House and stored in an unsecure location in a publicly accessible building
    2. They found Top Secret documents and documents that were even marked as Sensitive Compartmented Information which has very specific and formal access requirements. The definition of Top secret is information that is likely to cause Exceptionally Grave harm to US interests if it falls into the wrong hands.

    Nothing about library books



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    #2728
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,303 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    And to put the Sensitive Compartmented in context it is usually not even allowed to be removed from the room it's read by said person in the first place. Then of course we have the standard objection from the Republicans "But Obama..." except of course it turned to be a lie that the national archive confirmed was not true that Obama brought with him 33 million documents etc. Hence Trump brought secret documents with him that were to be sent back to the National Archive as per American law (and no being a president does not allow you to ignore that); he was prompted multiple times to do so and sent some back and then claimed everything was sent back in writing by his lawyers which turned out to be a lie. But yes; it's all about unreturned library books and not about him breaking multiple laws (which he has no way to override by being President to do so; nor have any powers after he's no longer president to keep on to said documents).



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    #2729
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,189 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479403#Comment_119479403
    1. Classified documents
    2. Classified documents.


    Come on now, I am not sure why you are being purposely obtuse here. The warrant clearly stated what they were searching for and the receipt what they found. Instead of being obtuse, why don't you make the point you want to make?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #2730
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119479403#Comment_119479403

    They went looking for classified documents, knew exactly where they were kept, identified them as classified, retrieved them and gave a receipt for them.

    Some (most) of the classified documents are so sensitive that they are listed as 'boxes' on the receipt - as to list them would be to identify them.

    They are definitely not unreturned library books.



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    #2731
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,630 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I found that the US National Archives and Records Administration [NARA] is the agency responsible for the administration of all records of the US Govt and this includes all the US Presidential Libraries, including the Trump Presidential Library. As it's the agency which has been at the front, though very quietly, of the issue Private Citizen Trump has with his desire to retain possession of US Govt records at his private home instead of letting NARA do its job, its worth keyboarding on the net about NARA. If the Admins OK it, I'd like to post links to NARA and the Trump library it administers. The link also has a direct contact with The Trump library, incl details on how to contact him. https://www.trumplibrary.gov/about-us/about-national-archives-and-presidential-libraries.

    Post edited by aloyisious on


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