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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jesus Christ. What an absolute utter rant that was!

    like he gives a rats *** about protecting the poor



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Jordan Peterson is a gobshite.

    You accuse climate change activists of getting their info from Al Gore but think this fellah is worth listening to?

    You might as well be quoting Dr Oz



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Being able to store phots on Instagram generates jobs, which feeds people, and taxes, which help provide services. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive and there is ongoing research on dual use land.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Who decides if they're 'required' Thelonious? The Central Committee?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,995 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Hes not wrong, backed up by the point made by xxxxxl. 17 types of mustard in Dunnes is ridiculous. Aldi/Lidl have it right, 1 English mustard, 1 dijon, 1 wholegrain, simple.

    The sheer amount of food that isn't sold by every corner shop, convenience store and supermarket in this country must be off the charts. If we did scrually consume everything that makes it to the shelves our obesity levels would be far higher than they already are.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Plus all the packing. Why do you need 4 apples wrapped in plastic when there are loose apples beside them.

    Im actually astonished that this kind packaging hasn’t been outright banned yet. I’m sure it’s coming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    If people can be persuaded to buy it then it will sell. The limited lines that Aldi and Lidl carry also force you to shop elsewhere for what they don't stock. The 17 varieties only applies to certain stores where people expect a lot of choice. In some of the stores you will just not find that. Bear in mind too that you may have two own brand versions as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    There tends to be quite a cost differential there between both products. Plastic in this case makes for easier transporting and limiting the potential damage to fruit and the solution should involve environmentally better types of plastic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,995 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Nobody is forced to shop elsewhere, that's a personal choice. I can shop exclusively in Aldi or Lidl for months. What is so crucial that must be bought in another supermarket?



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Quite a lot of non-food and cleaning products as it turns out. Aldi and Lidl do very limited ranges of stuff and some of them are not great. Dried goods is another area where they are really not so hot.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I have no issue with consumer choice for the most part, but the cost of the goods need to include the full economic and environmental cost of producing that product or service including the cost to recycle or dispose of the packaging.

    There also need to be better regulations on sustainable packaging and even the quality of the goods on sale (you shouldn't be allowed to sell an electronic item that is single use and breaks instantly... basically everything made from plastic in the 2 euro shop) and for more expensive electronic items, there should be a minimum service life for these. 10 years for 'white goods' should be a minimum.

    I have kids and the vast vast majority of 'toys' sold to children are absolutely appalling quality and are so over packaged. We have the CE mark for safety, but we should also have a Q mark for quality.

    I'd rather have the charity shops full of good quality 2nd hand toys that kids can actually play with, than the 'new' rubbish that is marketed to appeal to kids but breaks almost straight away



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,035 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The "job" at instagram does not feed people. By that metric the dole feeds people too, and if we all sat around on the scratch somehow the food would still be grown and processed and transported and sold.

    The reality is some jobs are worth less than others, there are 100s of 1000s of bullshit jobs nowadays, making stuff that is of no real benefit to society. How much energy is wasted, both in compute power and labour, working on AI and algorithms to better predict what kind of advertising to show someone? Advertising to sell you clothes that you dont need, or a new car when your old car could still be roadworthy for another 10 years?

    The fact that something "makes money" is not a justification for its existence



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's mad to see all of regular folk fighting and arguing over inconsequential crap while the rich and powerful get even more rich and powerful. They pollute like there's no tomorrow but lecture us. Something like the richest 1% produce more emissions than 50% of the world's poorest people.

    And lots of people fall for their crap. Lap it up and suffer while they fly about in their private jets..



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,138 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    yeah maybe some kind of board? we really don't need the avalanche of polluting crap that's pushed on us



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,138 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    We are the rich and powerful! Rich countries in Europe and the West like Ireland are the heavy polluters. The richest 10% produce half the world's pollution, that's us - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/02/worlds-richest-10-produce-half-of-global-carbon-emissions-says-oxfam



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A nice summary of the activities completed in 2021 by the dept of Environment

    The 2021 Annual Report illustrates the delivery of activities towards achievement of 5 Strategic Goals:

    • Goal 1 Be a recognised leader in climate action
    • Goal 2 Transform our energy system for a net zero emissions future
    • Goal 3 Transition to a circular economy – protecting and restoring our environment through sustainable resource use
    • Goal 4 Deliver world class connectivity and communications
    • Goal 5 Ensure best in class governance and regulation

    Key achievements in 2021 include:

    • The enactment of the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Act 2021
    • 52 projects funded form the Just Transition Fund
    • Over 15,000 homes upgraded through residential and community retrofitting
    • Over 1,000 MW of new renewable electricity through onshore wind and solar energy
    • Publication of the Whole of Government Circular Economy Strategy
    • 285,000 premises surveyed in the National Broadband Plan
    • Certain single-use plastic products banned form the market through the Single Use Plastics Regulations

    Loads more details in the pdf on the linked page.

    A nice start but still lots to do, onwards and upwards 👍



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Environmental campaigners (real ones, not the celebs looking for attention) are campaigning against private jets, and all of the wasteful consumption from the wealthiest

    The solution is to fight for better regulations than moaning about hypocrites

    If the politicians are not implementing or at least fighting for these regulations, then they should be held accountable at the ballot box.

    Regulations like the minimum energy efficiency of a new home, the materials they can be constructed from must be sustainable, taxation on private air transport so that if they do use private air travel, at least they pay for the cost of mitigating or (genuinely) offsetting that carbon

    Proper oversight and regulation of all the 'net zero' offsetting so that people have to prove that any 'offsets' would not have happened anyway without being paid for by the scheme

    Planning regulations that prevent land owners from chopping down native woodland or disturbing wetlands without proper planning approval and environmental impact assessments

    Sustainable development requires planning, and it absolutely needs to capture the externalities that allow producers to sell their goods and services below the true cost of production.

    'Consumable' items should cost more to buy but should last way longer and there should be a 2nd hand market for these items in the same way that not all people can afford a new car, but most can afford a decent 2nd hand car that was built to last)

    Of course, there are lots of financial interests who prefer it the other way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Let's take it back to sustainable nirvana, 1950s Ireland. What were the career choices facing your parents or grandparents who grew up in that era? Farmers, Blacksmiths, Tinkers, Carpenters, Manual labour, Priests, Nuns, Nurses, Housewives, Guards, shopkeeper, they even had politicians then. Ask your grandmother or great grandmother, what made the biggest difference to their lives, I'll bet it is electrical powered devices like washing machines, vacuum cleaners, and other elements. Electrification is what made womens liberation possible, the later inflation of the late 60s, 70s into the 1980s made it necessary that they enter the workforce to bring in the extra household income. Much employment available prior to that technological change was low skill manual labour in an agrarian economy. The nature of employment has changed radically since then, to one that values specialisation even professions such as doctors, nurses, solicitors and accountants specialise in areas within their discipline that need specialist skills, treatment of cancer vs heart problems vs muscle pain. The reason people are paid to work, they would not do those jobs otherwise.

    This is why the mismanagement that caused this energy crisis is so insidious, turn off the electricity and how many of these jobs are left? How are you going to ply your trade when the power is out? I have all the tools the carpenters used from the 1950s, no electric drills, planes & saws then, all hand powered, do you know how much effort it takes to make a door frame and frame a door with the old methods? Longer and unless you're a skilled carpenter, the quality is not as good.

    The intent of the climate emergency laws and policies is to make energy and food less available and more expensive. What do you think the consequences are going to be?

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Fair enough, but there does not see like a lot you actually do agree with where this green ideology is concerned, and even less with our Green Party.

    For green policy generally, especially in Europe, their policy on food production will inevitable cause more deaths through wars and starvation in a much shorter space of time than climate change. For Ireland we have already seen that here it`s just dressed up as being for the reduction of global emissions where anyone can see it is not going to decrease emissions by one iota. With a worldwide demand for meat and dairy produce projected to continue to increase, all the evidence points to it resulting in an increase in emissions where others will step in to fill that space in the market using much more harmful ways environmentally than Irish farmers.

    If greens are really interested in reducing cattle numbers then they should employ a few factory managers rather than geeks running computer predictions. Those managers would not be long telling them that they are yet again putting the cart before the horse, and that efficiency is maximum production in a safe manner with the least amount of resources. The global problem with cattle emissions is not Ireland where we have the climate and standards and we do it well with high yields, it`s the numbers of cattle in the third world where none of that is applicable.

    Irish green policy on energy is a mess built around strong arm tactics and hopeism. Which again is contradictory for such a bunch of doomsday preachers where hopeism is concerned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭Nermal


    How different we are.

    When I look at the cornucopia of resources delivered from every corner of the earth that are cheaply available in my local supermarket I don't feel hate - just wonder.

    I don't feel a yearning for the return of some sort of Soviet-era rationing system. If you ever experienced something like it you'd quickly long for the days when you suffered choosing between three types of ham.

    Good times create weak men.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    If we went to soviet era our choice would be bread, vodka, potatoes. We can ofc enjoy food from far flung places I choose not to Not forcing anyone to eat what I eat. My major point was on packaging.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Agree

    But do you think using prime agriculture land to build solar panels on is a good idea? Can they not be put somewhere else?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,469 ✭✭✭✭Ush1




  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I've seen one or two articles about, cautioning against farmers just jumping into it . I have no expertise on farming at all but if a tract of land can generate more money then you can see the appeal. It does seem like it can work but we're probably moving into new territory on the face of agriculture anyway.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We've built thousands of houses on it already so it must be ok to build on



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭ginger22


    and if we implement all these changes here in good old Ireland how much difference do you think it will make to the world / FA



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Do you not have any self respect? If I don't litter or fly tip or burn my rubbiah in the garden it makes no difference to the great Pacific garbage patch. But I still don't do these things because I hold myself to a high standard

    We need to adopt high standards for ourselves and expect those standards of others



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    The pacific garbage patch is a myth used for fund raising, the photos of floating plastic are taken with the coast in view and near rivers, people went looking in the Pacific and found what does exist are mainly discarded fishing nets, which is a real problem for wildlife.

    Commercial fishing equipment and “ghost nets,” which are fishing nets cast overboard instead of being properly disposed of, accounted for the majority of the 103 tons retrieved. Sadly, the crew found numerous turtle skeletons tangled in the nets, which shows the real-life consequences of these careless actions.

    Plastic being mostly hydrocarbon polymers breaks down and sinks, you won't any garbage patch out in the ocean, in fact it is very rare to see a plastic bottle or bag out there, and that correlates with what the people who looked actually found, plastic is often more dense than water and not buoyant so you won't find it floating just under the surface. The highest concentration of ocean plastic can be found near coasts of China and Indonesia in particular and it is mostly coming from mis-managed land dumps. It is up to the South East-Asian and South American countries to manage their rubbish, if they can bring it down to European and American levels it is an easily resolved issue.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The pacific garbage patch is a myth

    Its a conspiracy by Big Garbage!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It's not a problem because it's the highest concentration of visible floating plastic. It's a problem because it's made out of trillions of micro particles and it's accumulating more plastic at an exponential rate, 10x every decade

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-22939-w



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