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Commencement Notice

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  • 15-08-2022 8:09pm
    #1
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭


    Ok so for commencement notice, I need a bunch of things.

    1. General Arrangement Drawings. Do the drawings used in the planning permission count?
    2. A schedule of design documents as are currently prepared or to be prepare. What the F is this?
    3. An online assessment via the Building Control Management System of the proposed approach to compliance with the requirements of the Building Regulations 1997 to 2014; - Who does this?
    4. The preliminary inspection plan - Who does this?
    5. A Certificate of Compliance (Design) - Guessing the Structural Engineer needs this?
    6. Notices of Assignment in respect of the Builder who will carry out the works and of the Assigned Certifier who will inspect and certify the works, and - What's this?
    7. Certificates of Compliance signed by the Builder and the Assigned Certifier undertaking to carry-out their roles inaccordance with the requirements of the Building Regulations. - Where do I get these certificates?
    8. It must be accompanied by the correct fee. Along with the notice the accompanying documentation and appropriate fee you must submit evidence of the following, if applicable: - I guess this is the amount on your planning permission notification?




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    #2
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    First question. I assume you are going 'full' BCAR (i.e. you cannot or are not 'opt-out' of BCAR)?

    Second question. Assuming the answer is yes to the above, have you appointed a Design and Assigned Certifier?



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    #3
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,536 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Why are you "opting in"?



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    #4
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478178#Comment_119478178

    Sorry don't understand this



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    #5
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,536 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480003#Comment_119480003
    Screenshot_6.jpg


    these are your option for commencement notices. The "without documentation" one is for small extensions etc so scratch that.

    so youre given two options, 'commencement notice with compliance documentation' (which we call opting-in) and 'commencement notice with opt out declaration' (naturally referred to as opting-out)

    so im just wondering why your are opting in?

    you may have valid reasons for this. Some architects / engineers will not inspect under the 'opt out' route (not worth as much money to them), but thats their choice. You may want to have compliance documentation on completion of your build, which is fair enough.

    but it sounds like right now your not fully informed as to what your choices are.



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    #6
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 46,050 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480003#Comment_119480003

    Who have you retained for the planning element of your proposal and who do you propose to retain for the construction element?



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    #7
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480074#Comment_119480074

    My goodness you're some good poster.

    We are getting a 60 square metre extension and are all new to this.

    We already have got fleeced by a few people so really need to understand the process more.

    Are we some loaded losers throwing their lotto winnings in? No. We need space for family and are getting a mortgage from bank. So excuse all my ignorance and questions.



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    #8
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Have you an architect, engineer or other design professional involved?

    With a 60 m.sq. extension, BCAR (Building Control Amendment Regulations) applies, and you have two options as to which type of commencement notice you submit.

    To copy and paste what Syd said above, Option 1 - 'commencement notice with compliance documentation' (which we call opting-in), or, Option 2 - 'commencement notice with opt out declaration' (opting-out).

    From your original post, sounds like somebody is telling you to go Option 1?

    Option 1 is more onerous that Option 2.



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    #9
    mike_2009
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭mike_2009


    The Costings document from the Bank will list a professional who has to sign off the build as compliant. They normally handle most/all of the documents you called out in your original post. What professionals do you have onboard, assume you've selected a builder and accepted their quote and are ready to go shortly - you give a date you expect to commence, you'll get an inspection to ensure you haven't started yet followed a bill for development contributions post haste the next day! Be ready for that!

    So, what other professionals have you onboard? Was there an Architect, Engineer / other involved at some stage / overseeing the build? Watch out for BER - there is a requirement when the outside area changes XX to get it improved, you may need Part L calcs and to take this into account. I'll stop scaring you now, it get complex!!

    Ditto what everyone else said, it's just that I lodged mine just over a month ago so it's fresh....I did opt out myself though...



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    #10
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482394#Comment_119482394

    We used a Planning Consultant to help us rework drawings originally done by Architect a few years ago.

    We are not using an Architect but will be using a Structural Engineer.

    So first stupid question.

    Where do I get this option? Is it on the https://nbco.localgov.ie/ National Building Control portal for which you create account and log into?

    Nobody told me to do option 1 or option 2, I am merely trying to figure my way through the maze. We wanted to start building in October and I know you must give council commencement notice so need to figure out what I need for that so everything is in order.

    Any help or tips greatly appreciated.



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    #11
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Maybe have a read of this: https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/80499/7fb032ed-21e4-4a20-ac2f-6509b44d57fc.pdf#page=null



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    #12
    C. Eastwood
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482853#Comment_119482853

    Tim Robbins.

    You requested advice

    My advice is as follows:-

    You are getting a Mortgage. Some of the Banks Forms will require the Membership number of the Professional Body of your Construction Professional (CP).

    The 3 CP listed on some of the Bank Mortgage Applications Forms are as follows:-

    Chartered Building Surveyor ( Society of Chartered Surveyors of Ireland)

    Chartered Engineer (Engineers Ireland)

    Architect. (Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland.

    For the proposed renovations and extension to your home - you do not need a Structural Engineer.

    All of the 3 CP above will be acceptable to the bank. Check this with the Bank first.

    There is no need whatsoever for you to opt in to the BCMS.

    Select opt out with the Commencement Notice.

    The opt out Commencement Notice in the BCMS is submitted to your local Building Control Authoritiy. Phone them for advice on filling out the details for the Commencement Notice in the BCMS. They are most helpful.

    Opt in to the BCMS will be expensive as you must retain a State Registered Design Certifier and a State Registered Assigned Certifier, who will have to submit a lot of necessary data.

    If you opt in - on completion you will receive a BCMS generated Certificate of Compliance with the Building Regulations.

    The Bank will require an Opinion on Compliance with Planning Permission, which must be completed by a CP.

    The CP cam also provide an Opinion on Compliance with the Building Regulations, which will satisfy the Bank.



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    #13
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,536 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485243#Comment_119485243

    For the proposed renovations and extension to your home - you do not need a Structural Engineer.

    Theres no way of making such a definitive statement based on the information provided. in fact, making the very basic assumption that the extension needs a foundation, then its a lot more probably that they do need a structural engineer than not. On top of this, a significant amount of extension / renovations require removal / alterations of walls which will require structural investigation and design.

    If the OPs "construction professional" is a structural engineer, then that is more than sufficient for what they require in regards to BCARs



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    #14
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    If you 'opt-in' you will need a....

    Registered Architect, or

    Chartered Engineer, or

    Chartered Building Surveyor.

    ....to act as Design Certifier and/or Assigned Certifier.

    However, whether you 'opt-in' or 'opt-out', the following can deal with your mortgage paperwork/sign offs.

    20220817_143925.jpg

    Photo from a bank form.



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    #15
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Just two other things to add....

    Re 'opt-in' or 'opt-out' of BCAR, it is never a good idea for a construction professional to advise a client/homeowner what to opt for. You inform them, tell them the pros and cons of both and outline the associated costs of both. The decision must remain the clients/homeowners. Having said that, probably 95% 'opt-out', but there are those who choose to 'opt-in'.

    As the OPs proposed extension is 60 m.sq., BCAR does apply (and as outlined above, they can choose to 'opt-in' or 'opt-out'). Just to point out, whether they 'opt-in' or 'opt-out', a set of detailed (construction) drawings and/or specifications is required to be submitted, with the commencement notice, to demonstrate how the proposed works will comply with the building regulations. Standard planning drawings (unless they are very detailed/to construction standard) will not suffice.



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    #16
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,645 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    All good advice above.

    You'll be opting out.


    Now decide who's going to "sign off" on the build.

    Generally an architect or an engineer. (Or the others listed above)

    Essentially you'll need them to supervise the build and sign that it's compliant with the building regs and planning permission on completion.

    Be wary of professionals that are happy to do this without calling in at regular intervals of the build.

    Get a price off 2 or 3. Be certain of what's in the price.

    Engage them now (pre commencement)

    Post edited by Wildly Boaring on


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    #17
    C. Eastwood
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485711#Comment_119485711

    Brilliant

    Now please give the OP all the pros and Cons, and a full outline of the associated costs of both.



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    #18
    C. Eastwood
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485357#Comment_119485357

    A Chartered Civil Engineer with experience of domestic construction can design any Domestic Foundation.

    Your basic assumption that a foundation will be required for the proposed extension is 100 % correct.

    I’m delighted that advisers have now stopped sending the OP all the links to the technical data, BCAR etc, which many builders and some professionals cannot comprehend.



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    #19
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,536 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485914#Comment_119485914

    ???

    ive no idea what youre trying to say here.

    Youve a strange way of dismissing the correct professional in favour of another type of professional but "has the experience".

    why would a civil engineer who has domestic construction experience be any better or more favourable to a structural engineer who has domestic construction experience... when it comes to designing structural solutions??


    the OP has said they already have a structural engineer involved, you said they didnt need one. its highly likely they DO need a structural engineer involved regardless of opting in or out. That engineer should also be able to provide whatever opinion of compliances are required for mortgage purposes, which of course the OP would have checked at this stage



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    #20
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Thanks so much to everyone who replied. I registered to the https://nbco.localgov.ie/ site and have been having a look around.

    We will definitely go for "opt out".

    My next question is who fills out this form is it me, the person who did the drawing, the structural engineer or who?

    Same question for seven day commencement.

    I also understand you have to provide details of the engineer or builder as part of the form, is that correct? Is there anyone else? For example, the person who did the drawings?

    I understand the structural engineer has to be chartered but how many times is he mandated to call out to inspect?



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