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Next British PM

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Well, Truss managed to trot out all the fun Jewish stereotypes while dropping in a bizarre "woke" attack on the civil service at the end.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    I honestly haven't a notion what she's even trying to get at. It's bananas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,236 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The Tory leadership and membership have gone barking mad. All paranoid nonsense about "lefties", woke people, civil servants, Remainers etc secretly plotting against Britain and against Brexit....they've gone full on Trump.

    Though arguably, there is a method to their madness. They actively want to live in a deeply divided country, with all the white English right wingers on one side and everyone else on the other (perhaps they see this as a way of the Tories remaining in power forever).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The fear is astounding. People from dreary shthole towns that no immigrant would be caught dead in worried it will be "over run" with black, asian and South American people like they are told the London boroughs are.

    Post edited by breezy1985 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,236 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Absolutely - many of them living in total kips in various parts of England that nobody would dream of moving to, worried about migrants from other countries "ruining" their way of life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    And now they're over to Ireland today to wow approx 500 Tory members. The Tory chair in the North was saying on Morning Ireland how he's become more and more impressed with Liz Truss as time has worn on.

    I think he meant he's become more and more impressed with Liz as it became clear she was going to win and he wanted to back the winning horse.

    He was asked about the NIP and couldn't really explain why it was bad and also something something green channel. It's farcical.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    'He was asked about the NIP and couldn't really explain why it was bad and also something something green channel. It's farcical.'

    Perhaps he was mixing up 'Green' vs 'Orange', or 'Green' as in better for the environment, or perhaps he was mesmerised by the problems at Dover. He was strongly in favour of the NI Protocol bill that will remove the protocol - but oblivious of the consequences.

    He could not possibly disclose the actual number of Tory party members, but did acknowledge that the Tories only got 0.07% of the votes in NI in the 2019 GE.

    This is truly UK democracy in action.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I always boggle a moment when I remember the main UK parties technically exist in the North. What must that be like? Sitting in your little 1 room office above a chip shop, never invited to anything even tangential to "mainstream" in the Politics Industry; always a passenger to events as they happen. It's a wonder the parties exist at all.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Labour Party do not have a presence in NI. I doubt the Libdems have one. The SNP would not see a reason to have one. There is a Green Party in NI.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,540 ✭✭✭✭retalivity



    You also have places like Bradford that voted to leave, they already have a sizeable 'immigrant' population, in the sense that the immigrants arrived 50-60 years ago. These are effectively pulling the ladder up behind them, voting for the tories to do this and supporting the guys who would have subjected their families to discrimination and racism on arrival, and ideally would have kicked them out.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    But virtually none of the "immigrants" in Bradford come from the EU.

    Being in or out of the EU doesn't stop Pakistanis coming to Bradford.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    In fact Brexit just stops EU migration.

    The problem of uncontrolled immigration has it origin in family reunification from those coming from the Indian subcontinent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,612 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It's basically just the Tories, and at least previously some, of the UKIP fragments, that try and stand

    Lib Dems do have one but it's really just a method to have some national party for Alliance members to convene with.

    Labour have members there but won't stand for election. Some have stood on their own as "cross community labour alternative"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Labour have a constituency office organisation in the North but they are not registered as a party. They have usually endorsed the SDLP at election time.

    The LibDems similarly use Alliance as their proxy. Similar to how the Tories used to use the UUP.

    The Green Party is an all-Ireland party and GPNI is a regional branch in essence, though I note that they have recently changed their corporate identity.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The Lizz Truss facepalms keep on coming: this time slamming the entirety of the British workforce for lacking "graft", "skill and application" of other nations. All this via some leaked audio.

    I'm sure it'll go down brilliantly with those (usually older) types who think everyone else is workshy, too woke for a hard day's work, too cushy from all those workers' rights etc. etc. Can't see it shifting the needle at this late stage mind you.

    There are individuals here who like to try and squeeze an "anti British" angle into comments from nutcases like myself; and I really am not. No. I feel a deep well of sympathy for those trying to make do, work the hours god sends just to stand still & not drown ... and the person at the top of the tree - the one who's supposed to steer the ship - knowingly hates you; thinks you're useless and not working hard enough.

    As always, James O'Brien reflects my own polemical point of view




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,236 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes, people from ethnic minorities supporting the Tory Party is a bizarre one.

    But then again, the concept of the "Red Wall" Tory voters is equally absurd. People who have lived in poverty all their lives but who can't make the connection that the Conservatives and the toffs in England are mostly responsible for their poverty.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,641 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Watching that video now.

    I don't really know what I can add that wouldn't be the same old thing. I'm on a break in Paris and I've spent the day at the Musee de l'Armee which has exhibits on the French Revolution, a cataclysm triggered by peasants being unable to purchase bread.

    Of course, most people would be repulsed by the disgust shown towards them by the Britannia Unchained brigade who have never worked a day in their lives but it doesn't matter since they've a rigged electoral system and most of the media in their corner.

    An honest, competent government would struggle with what's facing the UK right now. This shower... I can honestly see riots.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    You have to feel sorry for Truss and the Tories, if it was not for the British people, Britain would be rich and the Tories would be feted worlwide.

    When I heard this from Truss it reminded me of this below. Not in terms of ideology or anything like that, just the inability of a ruling class to accept (any) responsibility.

    Throughout his life, Adolf Hitler had never been able to admit a single mistake or accept responsibility for any failure. And as the thousand-year Reich he founded teetered on the brink of collapse in early 1945, he blamed it on the weakness of the German people and a military organization riddled with timid, disloyal and incompetent officers. If only they had really listened to him and let themselves be inspired. If only they had possessed the same will and determination as him – certainly everything would have turned out differently



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It's just another version of the "poor people are poor because they are too feckless to be rich" stigma that many Tories hold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Duke of Schomberg


    God preserve us from Liz Truss - thick as mince. She thinks she can sort out the UK's problems, when she hasn't even got round to sorting out that wart on her neck (shades of Mary-Lou there). Trashes her secondary school by saying it was rubbish and she went up to Oxford despite that disadvantage - forgetting that there were other people there at the same time that can confirm it didn't slip down the pan until after she's left. Christ, where are the William Craig's when you need them? . . .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,236 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Truss seems to be quite shifty and insincere. There are suggestions that she doesn't particularly dislike the EU or Europe, even now in 2022 (unlike some of the genuine headbangers in the Tory Party) but that she sees bashing them as a potential vote winner and something that will personally boost her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭farmerval


    Is this the logical end of going for pure populism? Two candidates with zero appeal pretending to be whatever they think is trending right now. Total fakes. The media can't even drum up a modicum of excitement around the contest.

    Will the Republicans end up the same after Trump, uncharismatic chancers trying to pretend that they're the real thing rather than the non entities that they are.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,624 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Conservative Home numbers. https://conservativehome.com/2022/08/17/conhomes-latest-tory-leadership-election-survey-truss-60-per-cent-sunak-28-per-cent-nine-per-cent-undecided/

    Gap is now 2.7 times the total amount of Don't Knows + neither/won't vote and 60% have already voted. Technically they could vote again because party members aren't treated like the public.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,433 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    The really disturbing thing about that prospect is that so many are blind to the fact that this is happening.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mind you. Major was seen as a shadow non-entity following Thatcher, but he won the following GE against the odds, and was actually OK as PM. Certainly not the worst, and had the swivel eyed right wing anti-EU nutters blocking everything he needed to do.

    More recently, he has come across as a bit of a stateman - mind you that is a bit - the one eyed being king in the valley of the blind.

    I doubt that either of the current candidates would ever rise to anything but the disaster most appear to think they will be.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    My post is shown an hour early - I wonder why?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Clock has been wrong for me since March (when it changed the hour). Maybe you only spotted it now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭Dymo


    Terrible for a future PM to get caught saying, but isn't she right. Other countries have different work structures and a lot of British people do want the easy option like other western countries.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Treating an entire workforce as a monolithic entity, and speaking in inherently negative, demeaning terms is bad enough - worse from the person supposedly charged with working to better that workforce's interests.

    Leaving aside the fact that breathless adoration of Chinese work practises... right this minute, the people working Zero Hour contracts as many hours as they can, just to keep the lights on, nevermind be fed properly, might feel that kind of generalisation is bullshít. Because it is.

    It's all just a thin facade to treat the lower-income demographics with even more contempt than they already are. Oh they're not working hard enough. If you're poor it's your own fault. If you get sick you shouldn't have lived so unhealthily. See where this goes?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Low productivity in the British economy comes from low investment in British industry.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's exactly the same mind set as the GOP in the US , absent the religious zealotry.

    "Everything bad that happens to you is all your own fault , pull yourself up by your bootstraps!!"

    "No such thing as inequality , it's just some people don't want to help themselves!!"



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Of course, the important middle-bit that isn't ever spoken aloud is how Those in Charge are making it increasingly difficult to pull yourself up by your bootstraps in the first place: crippling wages; removing safety nets; curtailing affordable medical facilities; stripping back employment protections, and so on.

    Kinda hard to make your own way when those supposedly managing the game keep making it harder, and harder to live. Just get a better paid job! The Chinese work better than you! Unions are bad! Usually snarked by the F You, I Got mine crowd.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Oh absolutely - It's pure deflection from the reality that they and their cohorts are asset stripping the economy for their own benefit.

    If they can make it seem like poor people have no one to blame but themselves then they can keep conning a lot of them into still voting for them.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,236 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It seems the road to ruination. Politicians who are 'shapeshifting' and who don't really believe in anything but who will pander to their prejudices and bigotry of their voters. They usually make lousy political leaders.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think that is epitomised by the populist leader's cry:

    'Which way did the crowd go? - I need to lead them!'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,236 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It would be a bit like a football manager taking over a team and then basing his team selection and tactics on whatever the fans want i.e. the complete opposite of leadership.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Mussolini restaging the march on Rome after the event so he could get photos of him in front 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭blackcard


    These are my people. I am their leader. I must follow them.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    That is a better version of the cult populist leader.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    Think this thread needs a bump!!

    As of now Paddy Power (Political Betting & Politics Odds » Bet Online with Paddy Power™) has Rishi Sunak as the odds on favourite. With Boris Johnson 😲 😲 in second place followed by Penny Mordaunt, who at the time of writing is the only one officially to declare her candidacy.

    Their full prices are:

    Rishi Sunak 8/11

    Boris Johnson 7/4

    Penny Mordaunt 5/1

    100/1 bar

    I particularly like the Waterford Whispers story which reveals that Ireland has already run out of popcorn!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭blackcard


    I think Johnson has a good chance if he succeeds in getting 100 MP's to support him. It is amazing how short some people's memories are after he resigned a couple of months ago. The Conservatives are daft enough that if Johnson was forced to resigned again, they could turn to Truss again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,661 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake




  • Posts: 693 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Doesn't it say it all really in where Boris Johnson resigned in July & now they're

    looking for him to comeback 3 months later!

    Rishi Sunak must be wondering what he has done!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,630 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Would Sunak offer Johnson a cabinet position, and if so, would Johnson take it?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,028 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I think there is opposition build to Johnston's bid. He se.scto be struggling to get beyond the 50/60 signiture mark.

    I think there is to much of a risk with the probes into him over party gate. Getting to 100 will not necessarily get him to a run off. I think the real problem is the indictive vote unless he got well above 150 he would come under huge pressure to stand aside especially if Rishi had the backing of 100+ more MP's more than him. Penny Mordaunt will withdraw in the next 24 hours if she back Rishi it will be hard for Johnson's bid to continue

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,059 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Or Mordaunt withdrawing units everyone of an Anybody but Rishi mindset, thereby helping Boris? Rishi has the numbers already, what he (as well as the Tories, and the entirec country) needs now is others there to divide the remaining MPs so that nobody else reaches 100. Going to the membership again would not be a good thing.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I suspect there are quite a few Tory MPs that would resign the whip or even quit the party if Johnson got to run.

    That could well cause a GE if enough did do that. Maybe the treat would be enough to persuade some to withdraw support for Johnson so he does not reach the quota.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,860 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Papers saying Boris was expecting to get well past 100 names by last night. Instead he is stuck at 55.

    He will be making all sorts of deals now (hostages to fortune) as he gets more desperate for votes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,028 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Well it's Rishi. Boris has thrown in the towel. He says he had the hundred votes, I doubt it says Croker. When Rees Moggs was on this morning I knew he was bluffing. Busted flush.

    Will the stop Rishi campaign manage to get behind Penny Mordaunt. I suspect not. Even if she get to 100 I think the indictive vote would force her to withdraw.

    Rees Mogg's knifing of Truss at the fracking vote has backfired. I think it time to put manners on the ERG mob

    Slava Ukrainii



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