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Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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    #2762
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,435 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484949#Comment_119484949

    I'd say the most damage she can do is what she has already been doing in the Jan 6 Committee. If she was holding anything back before she won't be now.



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    #2763
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484949#Comment_119484949

    Hard to see her being able to have any real impact at the Ballot

    Her core "GOP-ness" is pretty toxic to most Democrats and the GOP now hate her.

    Perhaps her only usefulness would be to run as an Independent and try to split the GOP vote in the swing States but not sure if her desire to "stop Trump" extends to handing the election to the Democrats.



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    #2764
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484988#Comment_119484988

    Bingo. Maybe she can run as an Independent, but at this stage she has no reason to Play the Game anymore and if she was towing the party line before this point? And to have been ousted by a Trumpist election nutjob? I'd say the gloves are off from this point.



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    #2765
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Does she have to run seriously in every state?

    Could she concentrate her efforts in states where the democratic candidate has otherwise no chance but she can siphon off enough Rep voters to swing the state to the Dems?



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    #2766
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485422#Comment_119485422

    She could. She doesn't even have to be on the ballot in all states.



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    #2767
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭amandstu


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485006#Comment_119485006

    I would say it does -and I would also say that the Dems would be honour bound to recognise her contribution in a material way.

    Some post in government.She would deserve it and it would be good politics.


    They should also reform their crappy 2 party system while they are at it.



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    #2768
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,594 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485006#Comment_119485006

    not sure if her desire to "stop Trump" extends to handing the election to the Democrats.

    If the Republican candidate is Trump it absolutely 100% does. There is no other alternative.



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    #2769
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,388 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Aren't there always lots of candidates on the presidential ballot paper anyway, (other than the Dem/GOP candidate)? And they don't really affect the overall result as they only get tiny votes. Ross Perot is obviously the exception people think of but there are far far more Joe Exotic or 'Rent is Too Damn High' candidates who poll 5K votes nationwide.

    Unless you are willing to spends 10s of millions on newspaper/TV ads etc then you are effectively a no-body in the campaign.



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    #2770
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485682#Comment_119485682

    Not forgetting Ralph Nader who is the reason we ended up with Bush Jr instead of Al Gore in 2000.



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    #2771
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 12,074 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485006#Comment_119485006

    The "Republican who loathes Trump " voting bloc is overrepresented in US media to say the least.

    It just doesn't exist in the real world whatsoever.

    Cheney will likely spend the next few years mainly on MSNBC and CNN criticizing the GOP who for better or worse will ignore her.



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    #2772
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,584 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485833#Comment_119485833

    100%. I haven't seen any evidence that any sizeable amount of GOP voters are willing to move away from Trump. He got 74m votes last election! Those people are 100% behind Trump. They may claim otherwise in some polls but then will vote for him everytime.

    TBH, Cheney was exactly the same until the reality of Jan 6th forced her to make a stand. The vast majority of GOP voters haven't let that reality become their reality, preferring to continue to believe in the stolen election nonsense.



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    #2773
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Plus, presumably, there's the adage that all Politics is local; the gun-totting, election denying Trumpist might seem crazy everywhere else ... except within their own Congressional district. So as long as they keep the nuttier aspects of their rhetoric focused on Washington (Trump didn't exactly invent the narrative of "the swamp" ), I'd imagine many voters would simply hold their nose for someone looking after the interests of whatever gerrymandered scrawl constituted that locality.



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    #2774
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485889#Comment_119485889

    Agreed and even among those that haven't bought into the "big lie" they are still GOP voters and would never vote otherwise even if it's Trump.



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    #2775
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don’t believe that people should be held accountable for the sins of their parents but Liz Cheney, to this day, still supports all the policies of her Neo con war mongering father - a man who did more damage to democracy in 10 minutes than Trump did in 4 years. The invasion of Iraq, torture, rendition, WMD are all thanks to Dick Cheney which only a few months ago Democrats were lining up to shake his hand. Do people also need reminding of her position on abortion and her relationship with her sister?

    What people need to understand is that Dick and Liz Cheney’s opposition is not because of some ethical stance on Democracy! The reason the Cheney’s and Bush’s are so antagonistic to Trump is because he ran on an America first platform which was is the antithesis to Neo Con American interventionism which has found its new home in the Democratic Party.



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    #2776
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487306#Comment_119487306

    Is there any hope you could talk about your unwavering support for Trump despite everything? What is it exactly that makes you put yourself out there for him considering there's no one in the world he wouldn't throw under the bus if it would save his skin and allow him to continue his grifting?



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    #2777
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487306#Comment_119487306

    They've been whipped into a frenzy for the last six years by the media telling them orange man bad, so they'll overlook being pro torture etc..



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    #2778
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 16,822 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487306#Comment_119487306

    rte says it all...

    Republican Liz Cheney looks set to lose her seat in the US Congress to an election conspiracy theorist, in the latest sign of her party's break with traditional conservatism to embrace Donald Trump's hardline "America First" agenda.

    i would like to think that any irish politician would run on an "ireland first" agenda. bizarre way to frame it


    now re rendition, we completely facilitated that via shannon. aided no doubt by rte who only ever reported on the crazies at shannon protesting.



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    #2779
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,630 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487470#Comment_119487470

    It means that the Dems have until late Nov to get their candidate for the seat the preferred one by persuading the voters that there is a better option for them than sending a conspiracy theorist into the house that other conspiracy theorists of the same belief invaded on Jan 6 at the behest of Trump. I don't think that the GOP have totally broken with big business. It's hard to look at what's happened to Republican Party politics since 2014 to think it allowed the crazies take over the party first and now the house. One thing those crazies did see in advance and use was the liking Trump had for publicity, without overshadowing him.

    At first I thought what Trump did in establishing a friendship with Putin was to take the US foreign policy into an isolationist mode but his behaviour since being elected has proven he is a meddler with no experience in actual management, with an "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" attitude towards the other US politicians he has to share the reins of power with.



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    #2780
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 16,822 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487550#Comment_119487550

    it worked i reckon. any other president would have won a nobel peace prize cos of the abraham accords.

    what better option to americans than america first?

    he did well with NK, iran, russia, and china; even demanding nato pay their agreed contributions else russia will take advantage. . its all gone tits up since he left office.



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    #2781
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,630 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487566#Comment_119487566

    Actually, due to his very personal involvement in those accords, I suspect that he was as interested in ensuring he has business opportunities as well as a bolt-hole or two in that region to go to when in need of sanctuary. I genuinely believe his relocating the US embassy to Jerusalem was a move to secure a future in Israel for him and his family on a par to a righteous person. He's a genius in spotting opportunities for himself, even if he soon drives them into the ground due to his inadequacies.



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    #2782
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭Christy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487457#Comment_119487457

    Trump is pretty heavily pro torture....

    In any case it is a bit of respect for someone not willing to destroy democracy. Dems still disagree with her policies pretty heavily and the sentiment I have seen is well done for not lying but also I ain't ever voting for her. Largely due to the torture and neo con issues as well as largely being aligned with Trump on most things.


    So your point does not make sense. No one is ignoring the issues in her policies, just acknowledging that she is a little more principled than other Republicans.



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    #2783
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487470#Comment_119487470

    Anyone who takes a view that goes against established orthodoxies is labelled a “conspiracy theorist”.



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    #2784
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488001#Comment_119488001

    She believes the election was stolen. that makes her a conspiracy theorist.



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    #2785
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488001#Comment_119488001

    The belief the 2020 election was stolen, rigged etc. is a Conspiracy Theory, routinely and rigorously debunked. There is no legitimate or credible argument that says otherwise - and even GOP funded election recounts or inspections found no credible indication towards election fraud.

    It's a myth.

    And the only reason it persists is because, for whatever reason, Donald Trump has become a circled-wagon ideology for certain demographics to hide behind and scream "fraud!" as the latest anti-Washington agenda beloved of the eternally insular within the American Interior.



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    #2786
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,347 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488001#Comment_119488001

    'Conspiracy theorist' is almost respectable when compared with those who simply adopt a contrarian approach that does not require any thought processes at all and uses it to amuse themselves. Why anyone would want to align themselves with the flag-wearing, gun-toting, vapid cultists who support their demi-god unquestioningly is a mystery. At least conspiracy theorists have come up with an argument at some point.



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    #2787
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488043#Comment_119488043

    Likewise, the idea that Russians hacked the 2016 election is an even bigger (debunked) conspiracy theory yet it was circulated by fake news mafia ad-nausea. Numerous Democrats are on record including HRC saying that Trump was an illegitimate president.

    Democrats also said that the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen and yet these conspiracy theories still get circulated in supposedly good company to this day.

    Democrats are constantly questioning the legitimacy of elections yet none of their pronouncements or videos questioning elections are censored from big tech but if you make a video or post questioning the 2020 election it will be censored across social media platforms.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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    #2788
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488443#Comment_119488443

    remind me when the democrats instigated a violent riot in the capitol? In all of the examples you gave the democrats conceded the election immediately and ensured an orderly handover.



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    #2789
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,959 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488443#Comment_119488443

    There is ample evidence that Russia was involved in HEAVILY influencing the 2016 election via FB and they also hacked both the DNC and RNC email servers. Note they only released the DNC emails which ended up without a doubt influencing the outcome of election. Did they hack the results of the election? No, but absolutely intentionally interfered in the election as a whole.



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    #2790
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488443#Comment_119488443

    Whatabout?

    As has already been said, none of those examples came with an attempted storming of the Capitol, spurred on by a President refusing to concede, while the Dems conceded the prior losses. Many GOP members openly questioned, and continue to question, the 2020 election in a dangerous escalation of anti- democratic rhetoric.

    You can talk about "Fake News Mafia" or orthodoxies all day long but the fact is, 2020 was not stolen and the persistence with this narrative a dangerous Conspiracy Theory that's attempting to undermine democracy. Pleading victimisation doesn't wash.



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    #2791
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488508#Comment_119488508

    Never said that 2020 was stolen and likewise the fact remains that neither was 2016, 2004, 2000 or basically any other election that Democrats lost in recent history yet apparently questioning the legitimacy of the 2020 election is the only one that is considered a “conspiracy theory” and will get you censored off big tech platforms.



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