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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I still don't understand how their achievement is due to multiculturalism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Due to hard work and genetics

    Of course if you were to claim that there are other achievements due to genetics some people become very animated 😂



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s as much an example of multiculturalism as Andy Townsend and Mick McCarthy

    or Bundee Aki and Jamie Gibson-Park



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because all immigration is tied to multiculturalism, and every possible positive that arises from any immigration, is a credit to multiculturalism. Just the positives, mind. They're not responsible (nor is anyone else except the native group) for the negatives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Of course. Claiming that due to genetics some people are better than others in some fields opens up the possibility that they can be worse in other fields also due to genetics. And that can of worms was welded shut a long time ago, so much so that we don't even look in that direction.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Cordell


    --wrong thread--



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I celebrate all the positives of multi-culturalism, of which there are many 😊

    Yet you seem to find it remarkably hard to point to them when pressed previously. So let's recap the positives: Exotic food and people. Feeling of smug charity where applicable. And it seems more medals in certain sports if African folks are involved(as I noted previously the US looks like a majority Black nation in track and field) and eh...

    And of course you avoid the negatives like the very plague. It's all happy clappy goodness unless the native populations are to blame for all ills.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    You’re overlooking one of the main positives of multiculturalism - it gives extremists a list of ‘enemies’ as it were, people who they can blame for all the ills they have identified in society:





  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    Christ. Harping this "immigrants only good for exotic food" line again. 😑

    How about innovation and entrepreneurship.

    In one "small" example, it was a Turkish-German couple that developed the first FDA approved Covid vaccine, saving an estimated 6 million lives by 2021. Their developed their startup into a leading German pharmaceutical company worth 18Bn.

    Bringing the first mRNA vaccine to the market is only the beginning, showing potential in treating cancers and multiple sclerosis.

    There is more than just "exotic food" if you can look further than your prejudice.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Not really. All societies have an existing list, multiculturalism just adds to that list and makes the enemies more obvious.

    Just like all societies have social ills, multiculturalism just adds more and different ones to the existing ones.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    No, I'm pointing out that the exoticism is a large part of the multiculturist listed "positives". As are the outliers in sport, the arts and indeed examples like yours. Read up on the experiences of the Turks in Germany for the craic. The Bloomberg article itself notes it. And the others it lists were legal migrants to an ex European colonial nation that was built on immigration(and all White). Try being an African American looking to start up the next Google or Tesla and they're locals for centuries.

    And as I've pointed out look behind these success stories and the wider picture is not nearly so rosey, not least for the migrant populations who look or are culturally most different to the "natives". Discrimination against Turks in Germany is still very much in play generations after the first of them went there. There have even been mass murders of Turks by Germans. Never mind the Turkish criminal gangs and their own right wing groups.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Yes, but that is not multiculturalism - there is nothing culturally Turkish in the technology. What this is is a benefit of highly skilled immigration, the kind that pretty much everyone supports.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Here you go wibb, how's this for negatives

    RTE news : 488 hate crimes and related incidents recorded in 2021


    The numbers, while shocking, are unfortunately not a surprise given the "content" posted by many on this thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,201 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Just curious, was the O Halloran murder in London a black on white hate crime ?



    If not , WHY NOT ???



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No idea, the investigation is ongoing, you'll have to wait for an answer to that one



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    A hate crime can now be as trivial as re-tweeting a tweet.

    There was no detail at all in that report as to what form of 'hate crime' made up those numbers.

    In other words, 400 could have been social media, and the rest IRL.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Only using the 'culture' of Islamic people as an example:

    Dr Al-Qadri is not an extremist. He's a bog standard peace loving Muslim.

    Do we really have to go through all this again?

    His confidence is saying this publicly in this country, when he knows full well what Ireland's majority opinion on this topic is, shows that a critical mass of any foreign culture in this country can be of no benefit to this country whatsoever.

    It's all the wrong way round. It should be westerners culturally invading socially backward countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,265 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    So basically an average of 1.2 hate crimes and incidents a day in a country of 5.12 million people….

    You call that shocking ? Really ?

    certainly isn’t desirable but I wouldn’t be collapsing in convulsions of fear.

    Also the the characteristics are for a hate crime are based on disability, race, colour, nationality, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or gender.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,265 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Did I say it was ‘OK’ ? :) I said it wasn’t desirable, which means, ‘not ok’ …. The clue is in what I wrote… it’s just not shocking given the population.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭Miadhc


    This fella stood with the Shinners at Leinster House only a couple of months ago and they all had rainbow trans flags flying. These flag wavers are among the biggest supporters of Islamic immigration into Ireland and like it or not he has a right to his opinion and to practice his religion.


    Something seems off about this story though and the source is not reliable considering they were found printing a fake story earlier in the year about a hate crime that never happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    "Look past the positives and concentrate on the negatives of multiculturalism". Thats your long-winded argument? You have proven my point: You are incapable of impartially analysing multiculturalism. You give an example of "Turkish criminal gangs and their own right wing groups". Have they cost the German economy at least 18 Bn? Have they killed over 6 million people?

    No, they havent.

    This is your problem: You are unable to see how an innovation by a Turkish-German couple saved the lives of 6 million people and brought billions into the German economy during Covid. You can only see downsides of the Turks in Germany. Your examples show that you you cannot look past your prejudices and weight up the cost vs benefits impartially.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Much lower than that. Those were recorded i.e. reported hate crimes, not actually prosecuted real crimes. There were just 400 cases of people being offended and maybe a couple real hate crimes, like those 2 gay men murdered by that muslim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    Sahin and Tureci, the founders of BioNTec, did not come to Germany as "highly skilled immigrants". Tureci was born in Germany. Sahin was only four years old when he was brought to the country.

    Fair play for forming an opinion on the couple without knowing anything about them.

    Also, how long have you been posting in this thread and you cannot tell the difference between immigration policy and multiculturalism?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I've never not once denied prejudice and racism aren't major factors in "multicultural" societies. It's a cast iron given that they are and it doesn't matter when or where in history or today or what colour or creed is involved. The "other" is pointed at. Always. It's one of the main reasons I consider multiculturalism a busted flush and a socio-political fantasy.

    Modern multiculturalism as a politic and creed of its own sprang from the ashes of European colonialism and empire in the Old and New World. Nations left with a legacy of crap they had to retroactively deal with. America being the obvious example, France and the UK closer to home. The happy clappy sop of "melting pots" and "diversity" came along to paper over the cracks of a failure of history. We see no such sops outside the western sphere. Even within the west we see differences. The gulf between East and Western Europe as an example. The latter had those colonial pasts, the former didn't so didn't have to try to retroactively fix them.

    Ireland should have been in the former camp, but bad planning and loopholes for non EU migration in the middle of an economic upswing scuppered us there and current governmental foolhardy open door, roof over your head and among the highest social supports in the world posturing just adds to the pile on. But nothing to see here, at all at all.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    You point to a single laudable example of muliculturalism and completely ignore the past and current circumstances of Turkish people in Germany and how that has and continues to affect them and Germany. It's like the example I gave before of looking to the great successes of African Americans in sport and the arts while ignoring the far wider travails of the African American community. All you see are the outlier benefits of your politic and are totally blinkered to anything else.

    I've long noted the apparent and staggering lack of self awareness and appreciation of irony among the more vocal of the "Right On" and your statement of "You are incapable of impartially analysing multiculturalism" takes the biscuit, runs with it and eats it.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    What's a nationwide gang culture problem resulting in thousands and thousands of deaths per year when there's a dude winning gold medals for running faster than anyone else



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    And systemic prejudice against African Americans. The gang culture largely exists because of it. You see and saw similar in other American diasporas that weren't WASPs. Italian, Jewish, Irish, Chinese, Hispanic gangs etc. Bugger all German, Anglo, Dutch, or Scandi gangs.

    Now America is at the worse end of the scale, but similar trends are to be found everywhere one looks in "multicultural" more liberal less dog eat dog Europe. There isn't a single example of any multicultural Western nation where being Black doesn't mean you're more likely to be at the bottom of the totem pole. It's a near cast iron given. If anything those Black folks who do well, do so in spite of the background culture and at the same time highlight the plight of their wider communities. African Americans in the public eye have often noted this.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not desirable, lol

    "Very fine people on both sides" comes to mind



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  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Geert von Instetten


    In fairness, multiculturalism itself complicates and exacerbates these types of intolerant interactions, the majority of violent anti-Semitic incidents in Europe are perpetrated by Muslims. I remember relatively recently the Turkish Grey Wolves went hunting Armenians, in Turkey? In France. Turkish and Armenian inter-ethnic violence was far from the only immigrant violence in France that year, Dijon descended into violence when Chechens went hunting Algerians.



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