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Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,531 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Ok, so give or take, it works out at about two million. Now let's try reduce that. It's not easy i tell you. You try it sometime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "The facts, at least those that are in the public domain, do not point at any one suspect"

    Of course they do. What planet have you been on? Did you watch even one of the documentaries?



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭flanna01


    In fairness, the documentaries are nothing more than character assassination attempts on Bailey....

    One of them is totally bias, and practically runs with how Bailey never got charged with a murder he committed.

    Neither documentary, examines the full known facts of the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭elacsap



    I'd appreciate it if somebody could clarify something for me please.

    Is it the police's position (originally) that Bailey hiked over to Sophie's house? What I'm trying to understand is whether the guards believe that he could have driven there? Otherwise put, why the emphasis on hiking, rather than driving, to Sophie's house?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,853 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I was responding to a point which talked about other incidents where Bailey was drunk and lost his temper.

    And as others have pointed out, Bailey had been out drinking that night.

    So evidence of Bailey being violent to anyone else other Jules... zero. Not his former ex-wife. Nobody in the pub when tanked up.

    How many men have convictions for domestic abuse? How many in that area?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I think they assumed he hiked over to Sophies house . They have no proof whatsover of this. I also would have thought that they forensically examined Jules car and found nothing. I think if he drove it would have been impossible to leave no traces of blood etc. in the car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    The fact that they had a witness putting him walking at Kilfadda Bridge on the night would have lead them to believe he was on foot.

    Remember Bailey only became a suspect in the days, maybe weeks after the murder and was only arrested in February.

    The Gardai would not have been going around forensically examining the cars of random people like Juels Thomas if they thought the killer was on foot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    They had a witness putting a man at Kilfeadda Bridge and led Marie Farrell to say it was Bailey. She didnt identify the man as Bailey at the onset. Surely when they decided that Bailey was a suspect they examined Jules car ( the only car Bailey had access to).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think the Guards learned by interviewing some people in the area that Bailey was in the habit of taking walk at night alone, with no real aim, other than just for walking sake.

    Thus this Kaelfadda bridge sighting was also believed, at least initially. The rest is just the overall incompetence the police portrayed during the investigation.

    There is also no clarity on how much he really had to drink that night, but since Bailey was known to be a heavy drinker, at least at times, it is generally assumed, he may have had more than 3 or 4 pints of beer that night and quite possibly also Whisky. He was also known to be a Whisky drinker.

    The conclusion I would have is yes, he could have done it, he had the opportunity even though the motive is unclear, but it's highly unlikely he did it given how much he had to drink that night and how much physical activity for the hike would have been required.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Is that even proven though? A key issue in this so called investigation is that the gards spread rumours about Bailey around the town to get locals to come forward, vile vicious lies that they were later caught out on. In the aftermath of that, its completely understandable that some of those locals fearing that Bailey was some sort of psychopathic murderer or even serial killer would want him removed from the locality as soon as possible.

    Lets look at the list of liars that supported the gards in their attempts to villify Bailey in the locality

    • Marie Farrell, heavily pressured & coerced to say that the man she saw on Kealfadda bridge was Bailey. Motivation was a nice free house courtesy of the taxpayer & her husband getting off on assualt charges. To top it off the gards said they wouldnt tell her husband about the man she was out with that night.
    • Alfie Lyons, no doubt the gards had plenty of information on him with regard to his little weed farm & his known associates, wouldnt be difficult to pressure him either to come forward with false accusations about Bailey. Especially the 90% introduction.
    • Leo Bolger, staring down the barrel of a hefty sentence after being caught in possession of class A drugs imported. How he never got a custodial sentence to this day is a damning indictment of our judicial system to say the least. He'd be looking at a minimum of 5-10 years here normally or 20 years in the states if he didnt supply the gards with false information surrounding Bailey

    Im pretty sure the other ones have been completely discredited in more ways than one. When you convince people of a lie, they'll support you in anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    There were rumors going around that Bailey would take long hikes at night and howl at the moon at times. Nothing of that was ever proven, I think.

    Some of these points you've raised I've wondered as well.

    The Guards were able to coerce Marie Farrell, but the didn't coerce Alfie Lyons or Leo Bolger? And as you said, they had more than enough on Alfie as well as Leo to coerce them into mostly anything, - given that one of the guys would be looking at 5 to 10 years behind bars and the other possibly a shorter period of time.

    So in your opinion, what could have motivated the Guards not to coerce Alfie Lyons or Leo Bolger to some false whiteness statement? Something down the line that Alfie had seen the murder, actually seen Bailey lifting the cavity block and hitting Sophie, and Leo was later on on the way to visit Alfie that morning with intention of fixing and repairing something on the house, but saw Bailey running away, blood all over him?

    It could have worked, and they probably would have gotten away with it, but why didn't they? The possibility of 5 to 10 years behind bars for possession of class A drugs are pretty strong persuaders.

    Maybe Alfie and Leo had something as well on the Guards, something they could have exposed as well? - so they settled on coercing Marie Farrell?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    I grew up in a small village/town like Schull, I know the type of mindset that existed there especially in the 90's against the English. The howling at the moon reports were an absolute load of nonsense. Apparently he was shagging aload of virgins while he was doing this too. For gods sake

    Unfortunately, theres a relatively large % of the percentage of the population still that think the gards cant do any wrong, never lie & are generally upstanding members of the community. Despite so much evidence to the contrary. Just look at what happened to Maurice McCabe, a whistleblower who they tried to frame for child sexual abuse charges, probably the worst crime you can be accused of. And he was 100% innocent.

    Look at a gard recently who was due to be promoted to Sargent convicted of coercive control and abusing his partner. Now being investigated for sexual crimes.

    People need to open their eyes with regard to the gards in this country



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,148 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    Is yours a serious statement? The fact that he had no previous form for this kind of behaviour regarding anybody other than Jules is irrelevant. The man committed at least two brutal physical assaults on a woman - his own partner - which necessitated her having hospital treatment. In very slight mitigation of him he did admit to doing so but it demonstrates what he was capable of. If he was capable of doing that he would be capable of doing worse - killing another human being.

    He could have done either, in my opinion. Also, how did he get home from the pub on the night in question. Did Jules drive him? It must be around eight miles from Schull to their home at Liscaha. Sure, he could have left sometime in the small hours and walked to Sophie's. It's not that far, maybe half an hour on foot. If he drove he could have parked up somewhere not visible from the house. I have never read whether the Gardai had any definitive view on this other than that they believed he was in the vicinity and that he committed the crime.

    Post edited by chicorytip on


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭elacsap


    Thanks for all the replies to my earlier question.

    My understanding of the responses is that we are not aware of a definite factual reason why Bailey could not simply have driven to Sophie's house that night.

    [The purpose of the question is simply to help my understanding of established facts.]



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Is yours a serious statement?? Because he had fights with his ex partner despite her attacking him & scratching his face first in both of those fights. You think he walked over there, propositioned STDP, murdered her when she rejected him because he was seven sheets to the win on booze. Then proceeded to be clever enough to get away with the most high profile murder in Ireland since the foundation of the state.

    If a man was murdered in the locality in the same manner as STDP, would you be looking at female domestic abusers of which there are many.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,853 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Of course it is relevant. I was responding to posts saying blah blah blah Bailey... violent... drunk... can't hold his temper... rage.

    I pointed out if he can't hold his temper why is there no incidences of him being reported or cautioned etc etc for altercations over the years?

    How is that not relevant?

    How about responding to the points made and not the strawman you're arguing with in your head. And dropping the little digs about 'serious statements'.

    Where are your stats showing that someone convicted of domestic abuse - and no other crimes involving violence - is more likely than anyone else to be convicted of murder (other than their partner).

    People are capable of murder. Whether they are domestic abusers or not.

    And if you're going to claim it was half an hour on foot, in the small hours of a December night, how about providing something to back that up.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe



    I think small villages and towns like Schull still had the issue to deal with that emigration happened and not always the brightest stayed behind. Joining the police would have been one motivation to have a stable job, and not having to emigrate or move somewhere. Hence those small villages got what they had....

    At least the courts didn't convict Bailey, as they had nothing on him.

    France is most likely the other way around, more competent police, and a questionable judicial system sentencing Bailey for murder without any evidence.

    It's incompetence both in France and Ireland which lead to this.

    And yes, I've noticed colleagues, who were English and faced a lot of discrimination in Ireland, back in the 90ies, even as long as 1999. Finding rental accommodation was more difficult, if you were English back then and French, Spanish and Germans had it a lot easier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Only thing that saved bailey was our DPP at the time, he was someone of integrity



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    i'm sure if he drove he cleaned the car and added anything incriminating to the fire



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Also, how did he get home from the pub on the night in question. Did Jules drive him?

    He drove home with Jules



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,853 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    And nobody in the house noticed the car being cleaned?

    You ever tried to clean bloodstains out of a car?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    And that, while still under the influence of alcohol? I find that highly unlikely that Bailey could have done a good job on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,853 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Absolutely it wouldnt have been easy to get rid of blood or any evidence in a car. They drove the very same car to the crime scene the next morning right under the nose of the gardai - no way would he risk that if he was the killer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,853 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Yeah just spotting what would need to be cleaned would be a challenge in the dark.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It's possible that somebody switched the DNA samples taken from the crime scene with blanks and than they were sent off or analysis.

    This would explain why absolutely nothing was found, and also point at further police corruption or the killer was possibly himself a Guard.

    I find it hard to believe that the Guards collecting the DNA evidence were so incompetent that they collected absolutely nothing. There must have been something in terms of fingerprints or DNA, remember, the gates were opened and closed by many people, - especially if Sophie insisted on it to be closed. At least Alfie and Shirley's DNA must have been in the area, - for a perfect reason, they were using it almost daily.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    maybe there was no blood. if it was on his coat he could have wrapped it up in the car inside out and then burned the coat. people here making excuses for him. also if jules covered for him she will hardly admit it now



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,853 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Jules wasn't the only person staying in the house at the time. None of them noticed a smell of bleach in the car etc etc

    Maybe there was no blood? Who is making excuses now.

    How did he know where the blood was and wasn't on a December night?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



This discussion has been closed.
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