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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #16832
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    What exactly constitutes "World Class" anyway?

    Top 3 in their position at a given moment in time?

    Top 5 in their position on an "all-time" basis?

    Making a theoretical "World XV" at a given time?

    Or perhaps does it mean - "Would be an International for any country during their time" ?



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    #16833
    cuttingtimber22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭cuttingtimber22


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494207#Comment_119494207

    All very fair points.



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    #16834
    sprucemoose
    Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119493127#Comment_119493127

    i stand by my original comment.



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    #16835
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Just a post in appreciation of Josh Van der Flier. He was Ireland's best player across the New Zealand tour as well as our best player in the 2022 Six Nations. He had one if the best seasons an Ireland played has ever had imo. Just consistent excellence.

    His performances caught the eye if the New Zealand rugby media as well.

    https://twitter.com/bensmithrugby/status/1560511560686383110?t=nJC-RU3CWAQi3GqXa_YlCQ&s=09




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    #16836
    Itxa
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Itxa


    Speed to the breakdown is key to both Irelands and Leinster’s gameplan and anyone who opts for bulk over that is on a fools errand. His work rate is second to none and offers more than just tackles around the pitch. I think Farrell will opt for Connors when both are fit and we’ll pay for it offensively.



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    #16837
    RichieRich_89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    With John Ryan gone I reckon things could get a bit hairy at tighthead for a World Cup squad if there's bad luck with injuries and Marty Moore's concussion issues don't clear up. There's excellent quality in the first three options - Furlong, Bealham and O'Toole - but what if one of them is unavailable come World Cup time? You're looking at Healy switching over, or picking one of Archer, Knox, Salanoa, Clarkson, Abdaladze, Aungier, Robertson-McCoy and Milasinovich in the 33-man squad.

    Imagine one of the top three options misses the tournament through injury and then another one of them is unavailable for a key game. If Healy or one of the 8 players listed above had to be sprung from the bench early it could be the losing of the match. It would be reassuring to have a fourth choice of the calibre of Moore available.



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    #16838
    Shehal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭Shehal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119495657#Comment_119495657

    For Connors over who? VDF? No chance, VDF is absolutely nailed on.



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    #16839
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119495657#Comment_119495657

    After VDF’s season there isn’t a hope in hell Connors gets back in ahead of him barring injury.

    VDF is looking at a World Player of the Year nomination. Connors has never played at that level.



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    #16840
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119495657#Comment_119495657

    what is this alternative reality youre living in???

    please furnish us with the reasons why YOU think that farrell would pick connors over VDF when both are fit??



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    #16841
    Itxa
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Itxa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497178#Comment_119497178

    Size and bulk. And ability to take down big men. FYI - I agree it would be the wrong choice to make.



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    #16842
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497203#Comment_119497203

    From an attacking perspective, we don’t require as much size and bulk due to our playing style.

    From a defensive perspective, Connors chop tackling maybe shades VdF’s, but his tackling is pretty exceptional as well. And we gain more with his superior linespeed.

    I don’t think we’ve seen anything from Farrell’s selections in the last year or more to suggest he’d favour size and bulk.

    Farrells picked Connors over VDF at the start of his tenure. I don’t see any chance of it happening now.



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    #16843
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Coombes would be starting regularly if there was any truth in him preferring bulk over speed/athleticism.



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    #16844
    Itxa
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Itxa


    Yeh I seem to remember him picking Connors over VDF after a pretty stellar season for VDF? Hadn’t he come off two MOM performances in Europe in the preceding season only to be dropped? Might have been a bit far back but the season before he was dropped he was in great form?

    Edit- it wasn’t the season before it was the same season



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    #16845
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497349#Comment_119497349

    2019/20? VdF wasn’t hitting anywhere near the form he hit this season. Especially in an Ireland shirt.

    I think it’s a pretty big leap to point to that as a reason Farrell will still favour Connors.



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    #16846
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I think someone is a bit bored today.

    VDF had a temporary blip after lockdown and Connors got a chance, but he's not really in the same class at all. He'll be vying with Timoney for a training squad spot.



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    #16847
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Time has lost all meaning. It feels like 5 years since Connors played for Ireland but it's been less than 18 months!



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    #16848
    Shehal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭Shehal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497203#Comment_119497203

    We need to pick players that suit the way we want to play, adding players just for size and bulk isnt picking a player based on the way Ireland want to play.



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    #16849
    Itxa
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Itxa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498018#Comment_119498018

    But at the time we had just been dominated by England the year before and we needed someone in to counteract the two Vunipolas. I suppose it’s irrelevant now. Ruck speed trumps size for us.



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    #16850
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Connors is tall but he's really not particularly bulky. I wouldn't view his as a more physical player than VDF at all. Maybe in defence, but Josh has brought real aggression to his attacking game (very insightful analysis, I know!)

    If we're looking for size/power in the 7 jersey than Timoney is our guy, not Connors.



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    #16851
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497997#Comment_119497997

    And I think we forget how good he was too tbh. I wouldn't have him (or virtually any 7 in the world) ahead of VDF but Connors was performing well at international level. Timoney also playing quality rugby.



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    #16852
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497997#Comment_119497997

    It’s mad. Someone pointed out to me the other day that 2023 is just over 4 months away. Covid has completely messed with people’s perception of time.



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    #16853
    Itxa
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Itxa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498527#Comment_119498527

    Amazing, how long has it been since there was a loud call for Connors to be the Irish 7 for the next ten years when Josh was close to his peak. Sounds like revisionism.



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    #16854
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499526#Comment_119499526

    Eh, sorry, what? I don’t remember anyone calling for any player to be the Irish anything for the next 10 years. Sounds like a straw man.



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    #16855
    Itxa
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Itxa


    There was plenty on other forums calling for that specifically. And comparing him to Penny who would be sub 50 caps but Connors who would be be over over 50 caps. I think it was Ionadpot on this forum. He might be right, over 50 requires 5 full seasons starting but if Josh is as nailed on as people here believe he will be wrong

    Post edited by Itxa on


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    #16856
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499561#Comment_119499561

    …he will be wrong

    You mean you will be wrong.



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    #16857
    Shehal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭Shehal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499561#Comment_119499561

    Okay put it this way, he's 3rd behind Sexton & Furlong in the undroppable category. There is 0% chance he'll be dropped unless he has a disastrous turn of form next season.



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    #16858
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Josh VDF is not remotely in danger of losing his position unless something absolutely drastic happens. And certainly not to Connors.



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    #16859
    Itxa
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Itxa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119500896#Comment_119500896

    Ok what is Josh now 29? He’s got another 4 years in him as he’s in good nick. That will mean Connors will be 28 at the time Josh retires.

    Assuming he gets 5 straight years as first choice at that point is generous considering the likes of Timoney are around now pushing for a place.

    So I don’t see how I’m wrong and Ionadpot will be right assuming Josh doesn’t get injured in the interim and Timoney doesn’t skip past him in the pecking order. Explain how I am wrong.



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    #16860
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119502271#Comment_119502271

    Explain how I am wrong

    Because this…

    Assuming he gets 5 straight years as first choice at that point

    … wasn’t your initial argument. This was:

    I think Farrell will opt for Connors when both are fit



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    #16861
    Itxa
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Itxa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119502355#Comment_119502355

    I’m basing the second statement off other peoples opinions hence the “assuming”. And yes I believe Farrell likes his players big and bulky particularly when we’re playing England or France.

    However, on contemplation, and basing off what’s seems to inside knowledge such is the belief on here in Josh’s superiority, and basing my opinion on the fact that some people on here are indeed school friends of Cullen and Smith and have insight into the inner working of Leinster and Ireland, I would hazard a guess that it won’t happen



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