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Can Sinn Fein fix the housing crisis or is it beyond them or anybody else?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭letsbefair


    There is no magic political bullet to sort it out. It’s basic economics. The cost of building is very high and never in history has a country been able to give everyone a house on the cheap. Even fully communist countries where the state owns everything. So don’t believe anyone with simple solutions. If you want to own a house it will cost you most of your income when you’re young full stop. Has always been the case and is so the world over. Ireland is no unique.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,978 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Given how high inflation is also hitting the raw materials used to build housing I don't see it getting any better in the medium term. There's essentially a floor on how costly building something is, before you even consider the profit margin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    It strikes me that the question title of this thread is somewhat loaded.


    Surely after more than a decade of FFG influence on the property market the question should be.


    Could SF make the property market any worse if they had a turn at it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Why would building houses quicker, faster and cheaper interest FG or FF? They are very happy with the status quo.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    That would make sense that’s why it isn’t happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Ffg are a proven joke. Against new housing everywhere. Sf the same no doubt. Non of them will deliver proper infrastructure, capable of supporting high density. Cost of construction is far too high, yet nearly every time standards change, it's to an "increased" standard, pushing the price even higher. We need masses of studios and apartments, reclaim the family homes in cities for families! Who wants to be in dingy house shares into their thirties and forties... better off in a modern contemporary smaller space on your own...



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,472 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    We need to take the pressure of the purchasing a house market.

    The only way to do that (bar a recession) is to improve conditions in the rental market.

    The rental market has high rents and low supply due to government policy’s.

    “Small LL” are being forced out due to laws being completely in favour of the tenant and high taxes, this leads to low supply.

    HAP has put an artificial floor in rents so rents will stay high due to government giving out HAP which obviously ends up in LL pockets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    A SF supporter created the thread

    SF say if they get elected they will fix housing, it would seem even SF supporters know that SF have no answers and are trying to cover up before they even get elected…..

    Based on what? Would the multi billions been invested to build houses as quickly and cheaply as possible to make the housing market better?

    If they are happy with the status quo they would do nothing, they also asked the opposition in the Dail to work with them to resolve the housing crisis, when was the last time a government did that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I doubt the OP intended this thread to be the only place the housing crisis can be discussed.

    Having it discussed through the prism of SF is likely seen as a win for the government fans.

    I have long ago come to the conclusion that they couldn't make a lot of things in the country any worse and more and more of the electorate are coming to that conclusion too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    A win for everyone should be for the housing crisis to be over, certainly my own position has been crystal clear and I just want it resolved ASAP

    Sadly that doesn’t seem to be the case with a lot of people on this forum jumping for glee when the homeless numbers rise and the housing crisis gets worse.

    No consideration for the people caught in the housing crisis and they are just used to score political points as you call them, personally I still have no idea what happens these points? Do they count them up at end of year?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    They don't want to. People like Troy within FF/FG are making money off the crisis, they don't want it to end. They've invited in investment funds to join in the fun. They are all making serious money. The previous FG housing policy advisor was Jennifer Carrol McNeil whose husband was the top man in Goldman Sachs Ireland at the time. Tell me she was putting the tax payer first and not investment funds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Waffle. You are just coming in and shouting from the same script, refusing to answer questions and ignoring responses. Pointless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Any proof on this? Please share if you have?

    I am sure everyone would love to see it 👍



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yeh but, yeh but the opposition Brucie...wot about the opposition?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Yes, they created and maintain a housing crisis and invest in housing. One in four TD's are landlords too. The previous FG housing policy advisor was Jennifer Carrol McNeil whose husband was the top man in Goldman Sachs Ireland at the time. 

    Can you answer the question, has housing been solved in DCC? They have a FF majority of seats, followed by FG. They've the Greens. They've the weight of the government behind them for near a decade. So they must have solved it in DCC?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Once someone doesn’t praise Sinn Fein you accuse them of “waffle” etc etc

    Hate to tell you but not everyone supports Sinn Fein, neither should they when as pointed out on this thread the huge issues they have in their policies.

    I have been clear from day 1, I want housing crisis resolved, that seems to have irked you, would you prefer to see it continue?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    So that’s a no on proof. Thank you for confirming

    in DCC you had 5 years of slow down, then covid, houses don’t get built in a day. The disaster left behind by Sinn Fein after their term in DCC will take a long time to resolve but the government are getting houses built and that is the only way to resolve

    Of course as we have seen, SF continue to delay projects all the time, this will continue to slow progress, but progress is been made still



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The, 'it's everyone else's fault but the actual parties that have shared the power in this country for 100 years' line again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Troy has a thread, might be an idea to discuss him in that thread?

    I seen Sinn Fein in DCC 👍 total and utter disaster

    I seen Sinn Fein screw over renters in the North

    I see Sinn Fein every day trying to make as many people homeless as possible

    Thats Sinn Fein 👍



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And we have seen FG FF fail completely and it is more than a suspicion that they want it to continue failing as their actual members are profiting from it (Troy etc)

    So do the electorate see this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Nobody said that 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

    Anyway I have no interest in going down the usual Francie rabbit hole, my points are clear and concise, as always 👍



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think the electorate will once again see that this is what is going on here too,

    They'll try and mask their failures with the 'it's the shinners fault' mantra.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    There is an equation at play here and its something along the lines of:

    % of voters who are property owners and have seen the value of their assets increase due to the current market conditions (typically older more community active religion attending type people)

    linked with

    the % of those people who are active voters (its high - very high)


    MINUS the number of people who are not homeowners but want to be, generation rent, struggling badly AND are active voters. For a number of reasons this demographic is not as large as people think, ((its probably high in a forum like this) because a lot of young people are not voters, dont live in their area etc.

    Sure there are people in-between, frustrated because kids are atill living at home etc.

    So if your running for election do you want the first cohort onside or the second because you cant have both, and generally speaking the first cohort votes and the second doesnt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes



    In my opinion the issue is this it's a problem that neither a leftist nor a rightest ideology can fix. Because BOTH ideologies are contributing to the problem at hand in different ways. There is a lot of ideological bs and bitterness to wade through on both sides.

    Well their main issue ideologically will in my opinion be this. To actually do something they will need to offer tax breaks to the building industry get rid of a lot of red tape. They will seriously need to sort out a number of bodies like an taisce and the planning bord. Which would mean firing a lot of civil servants. Then will they will have to get to task on the dept of housing....imo an taisce the planning bord and the dept of housing should be one body. They keep suing each other and its getting ridic.


    It's too easy for people to make objections to planning. Some of the land zoning regulations need to be looked at.


    Also Ireland needs to diversify where we put our money. A lot of people invested in property because they didn't know where to invest or couldn't invest anywhere else. Property does well against inflation whereas a lot of other investment options don't. Americans invest in the stock market Irish people tend not to and when we do ...we invest in property funds. And its mostly RESIDENTIAL investing.


    When you look at commercial property and the rent prices there the difference is STARK. Offices in the middle of town that are like the size of four apartments and they are going for 1500k to 2000k per month including bills and sometimes even a receptionist desk that is operational as part of the deal.


    Over 90 % of the social housing due to be built by 2021 has not been built. So these people need to enter the private renting market. People complain about 'oh they get houses for free '. People dont realize social housing actually makes their own private rent cheaper too by keeping some people out of the private sector.


    Another reason its expensive isn't really talked about ....we all know we have high inflation well some of the reasons we have high inflation in my opinion is the degree of public private partnerships gone wrong. For example the govt renting hotel rooms for kids in foster care or for refugees. Its a disaster. THAT is precisely why hotel rooms in Dublin are 400 euro per night Hotels don't have to compete when they get that kind of business. And they know it. And I know that hotels are not paid the full wack by the govt for that service. But its something they rely on. When YOUR sector has just gone through a hugely defining moment like a pandemic crushing tourism and you come back with basic rooms at 400 a night ....someone is propping you up. A lot of public private partnerships are DRIVING inflation. It means people don't have to compete with others for the services they provide.


    Another issue is a lack of natural resources driving inflation we have no gas no oil and are an island that has to import it. That costs. Now either we get better deals we go green and we STOP privatising and start going back to state bodies....or we go broke.


    A lot of privatisation is driving inflation. GPS dentists etc all private ...you wanna see a GYNO ...for a smear privately once a year ..500 euro. THAT DRIVES INFLATION. The middle class don't want to admit it but the privatisation of what in other european countries are state bodies in this country is driving inflation. We don't have oil like the states nor the population buying and negotiating power. Often people don't realize HOW lacking in natural resources Ireland is. We have perhaps some resources that could be reached through fracking ...Ireland has banned fracking for ecological reasons. Now that might be the right thing to do I am not sure. Other European countries though like france and poland have not banned fracking. They say they have ways of doing it without the damage to the environment. I can't say again. If there are ecological arguments we have to answer to those. But ecologists also have to answer to the economic ones.


    When inflation rises RENTS rise. When petrol goes up when gps fees go up RENTS RISE.


    Now there is another issue. A lot of building companies in Ireland were crushed in 2008. The cost and the ability for builders to find financing now is harder. ALSO they used to find it a lot in london with brexit that is harder.


    Now another huge issue is STATE TAXATION STATE TAXATION STATE TAXATION ....this figure SHOCKED ME Between 13.5pc VAT, charges on materials, labour, tax on builder's profits, and the aforementioned local authority charges, it has been estimated by the construction sector that directly or indirectly, the State takes almost 40pc plus of the money paid over for a new home. ALMOST HALF! It doesn't take a genius to work out that is the state driving inflation through taxation. And no i don't expect SF to deal with that or admit it. Just like i don't expect FG /FF to admit that privatised a health service etc also drives inflation.


    The dumbest **** is ..that with all the tax they are claiming from the housing industry they STILL can't seem to use it to fix the homeless issue caused by the inflation caused by the taxation of the housing industry.


    Also those demonizing landlords. Look im sure there are some who are awful but most are not. With tax insurance and the time it takes etc there isn't a lot of money in it. It's somewhere to PUT your money ..and sell when prices are topped out. The reason landlords leave ...a lot of the time ..is because they think their investment has topped out. And small landlords get ripped of by companies too. And the funds investing ...are mostly made up of normal people not rich people. But they are managed by banks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Also speaking to a point above rental debt arrears are complex. Some people are living in sub par conditions and waiting on repairs.


    Over half of those in arrears owe less than 500 euro. Although some owe 27k or more. For example there are 25 tenants who owe 27k each.



    And its highest earners who are mostly in arrears ....the lowest earners are the least in arrears.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I don't expect SF to handle the high taxation situation on goods and income ....maybe they will handle getting some proper state bodies for things that should not be privatised.


    Maybe if we elected an extreme leftest govt then an extreme right govt one after the other we can keep things in balance!



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    Is no one acknowledging that the reason people are supporting the far left is because capitalism has left a generation behind?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    So your claim is nonsense. Thanks for confirming. You say in less than 5 years they destroyed housing in DCC, several years ago, even though FF/FG had more seats and were the government. And since then FF have more seats, followed by FG and still in government and housing is worse. You really need to stop peddling this nonsense. Its jaded and embarrassing.

    No FF/FG politician wants the crisis to end. They are making too much money off the tax payers misery.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




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