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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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    #10172
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499055#Comment_119499055

    Its amazing people cant use their own judgment on the effect of a drug or not without been asked for expert proof. Ill skip until i see long term data on male and female fertility. Expert proof takes time and experimentation which we are in the middle of. We will see how it goes. Again hopefully everything works out ok.



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    #10173
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Always the long game. It’s the same with every conspiracy. People are still having children. Have you noticed any differences in the birth rates? Or maybe this is like your Africa statement that was just a load of BS that you had on your mind.

    Post edited by Fighting Tao on


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    #10174
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499055#Comment_119499055

    Yes we do.

    You guys always dodge the question when you don't want to admit the answer. That's what you are doing now.

    It's weird you think that people are being fooled by this dodging.

    And I'm not asking you for proof. I'm asking you for either evidence that suggests a link or any experts that share your concern.

    You can't provide either.

    And yes, if you can't provide any back up for your claims and conclusions about the vaccine, no one will take your conclusions any more seriously than the claims about nanotechnology or the mark of the beast.



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    #10175
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499351#Comment_119499351

    Yup. Kicks the burden of proof down the road as far as possible so avoid having to admit there's no evidence.

    A year from now he can still claim that it's too soon to see any effects. Same after 2 years. 3 years. 5.

    As long as it takes for the original claims to be forgotten and the conspiracy theory has moved on to the next thing.



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    #10176
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119499837#Comment_119499837

    Yes but we are seeing effects. Thats the concerning point.

    https://www.trialsitenews.com/a/netherlands-study-mrna-vaccines-correlated-with-excess-deaths-13865747



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    #10177
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119501986#Comment_119501986

    It's a pre-print study, we have to be especially skeptical of big claims.

    Are the results also correlated with the age profile of the different municipalities? Or their population density? Or their number of care homes?

    How, if it is related to booster vaccines, would it affect 65 - 79 year olds more than 80+ year olds?

    Of the more than 19 thousand people who died due to COVID-19 last year, 60.9 percent were aged 80 or older (11,775 people). The excess mortality in this age group broadly corresponds to mortality due to COVID-19, also during the third wave of excess mortality...

    Among 65 to 79-year-olds as well, the higher death toll during the third wave of excess mortality broadly corresponds to the elevated mortality due to COVID-19. If COVID-19 is excluded, mortality in this age group - unlike among the over-80s - is still higher than expected, partly falling outside the usual range of expected mortality.

    https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2022/13/over-19-thousand-covid-19-deaths-in-2021

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #10178
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119502047#Comment_119502047

    Yes and the extreme pro vaxxers will blank it from their minds. And go thats not evidence. And say he is not a real professor or doctor or whatever and that he is wrong and they are right. As i have said many times this will pan out and hopefully those mRNA vaxxes are the holy grail that we were promised and excess deaths will go down and fertility up. I'm not overly confident however



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    #10179
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119501986#Comment_119501986

    OK so we're switching back to claims of deaths and ditching claims of fertility.

    Again.



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    #10180
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119502790#Comment_119502790

    Well firstly, still no such thing as extreme pro vaxxers.

    And yea, people might point out that the author of your paper isn't a medical doctor or an expert in virology or medicine.

    Remember when you guys rejected a study I posted and called it fraudulent because it used math?



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    #10181
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503150#Comment_119503150

    There is no such thing as 'you guys'. And educated people who use Maths like statiticians and professors and doctors, be it medical or other are entitled to be heard and I have never accused any educated person of being a fraud. You should look at yourself before accusing others the Regal King Mob.



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    #10182
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503655#Comment_119503655

    By you guys, I mean anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. Ie. the people on this thread who are claiming there's a giant global conspiracy behind vaccines and the pandemic.


    So then since you aren't rejecting any studies, remind me why you didn't accept this one when it was posted:

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2822%2900320-6/fulltext

    Based on official reported COVID-19 deaths, we estimated that vaccinations prevented 14·4 million (95% credible interval [Crl] 13·7–15·9) deaths from COVID-19 in 185 countries and territories between Dec 8, 2020, and Dec 8, 2021. This estimate rose to 19·8 million (95% Crl 19·1–20·4) deaths from COVID-19 averted when we used excess deaths as an estimate of the true extent of the pandemic, representing a global reduction of 63% in total deaths (19·8 million of 31·4 million) during the first year of COVID-19 vaccination. In COVAX Advance Market Commitment countries, we estimated that 41% of excess mortality (7·4 million [95% Crl 6·8–7·7] of 17·9 million deaths) was averted. In low-income countries, we estimated that an additional 45% (95% CrI 42–49) of deaths could have been averted had the 20% vaccination coverage target set by COVAX been met by each country, and that an additional 111% (105–118) of deaths could have been averted had the 40% target set by WHO been met by each country by the end of 2021.


    Do you now accept the conclusion of this paper? If not, why not?


    Also, have you completely ditched your claims about the vaccines having a clear link to decreased fertility? Or will that claim be cropping up again?



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    #10183
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503692#Comment_119503692

    So you are back to claiming anyone who has any doubt about the mRNA vaxx has to be a conspiracy theorist or anti-vaxxer. As i have pointed out many times there is no such thing as 2 distinct cohorts. There are conspiracy theorists and there are anti vaxxers, moderates and extreme pro vaxxers. As someone who sat in a vaxx clinic this week and had my child vaxxed with well proven vaccines i cannot be put in the first two cohorts but I certainly am not a fan of the mRNA tech. So can you take me out of 'you guys' an create a new subset. Maybe you could refer to me as 'anti mRNA guy'

    I certainly have no reason to doubt or question the estimates in the Lancet study. The vaccines have a proven short term effect in reducing mortality. It is the longer term effects and long term increase in mortality that we are seeing now that needs to be explained.

    Again on fertility any drug that effects the menstrual cycle causing heavier bleeding/extends cycle length has to have a short term effect on fertility. That is acknowledged now and was not picked up in the vaccine trials. Longer term hopefully we wont see any effects

    https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijgo.14356



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    #10184
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503692#Comment_119503692

    ACG has received personal consultancy fees from HSBC, GlaxoSmithKline, and WHO related to COVID-19 epidemiology and from The Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria for work unrelated to COVID-19. ACG is a non-remunerated member of scientific advisory boards for Moderna and the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness. ABH and PW have received personal consultancy related to COVID-19 work from WHO

    Just your standard grifters.



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    #10185
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503821#Comment_119503821

    Nope. I told you what definition I was using.

    You believe that there is a global conspiracy behind vaccines, either to cover up the negative effects or to promote their use despite them not working as well as claimed, or both.

    If you don't believe these things, and agree there's no conspiracy behind vaccines, then I will withdraw my comments.


    And great, you agree with the conclusion of the study. The vaccines have saved over 14 million lives.


    And look at that, we've jumped back to fertility again...

    What short term effect on fertility? How is it different from any other drug that makes it a "red flag" for you? How is it different from any similar effect from Covid?


    Also, again, I've got to ask if you actually read the study you posted:

    Concerns were raised about the possible influence of the SARS-CoV-2 mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine on women's fertility. These concerns were refuted with the publication of a number of articles as well as an official statement from The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine stating clearly that the vaccine has no negative effect on female fertility.28, 29 Therefore, even if the vaccine is associated with temporary menstrual changes, it is extremely unlikely that this has any effect on current or future fertility. This is further supported by the current study finding that among those who experienced irregular bleeding following vaccination, the occurrence of any abnormal symptom was mostly transient and resolved during the study period.



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    #10186
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503898#Comment_119503898

    Ok, So you are indeed claiming that this paper is fraudulent.

    Cool.



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    #10187
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RDT_20220823_033215521437931703592909.jpg

    ..



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    #10188
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,034 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    @[Deleted User] whilst the memes are hilarious, we'd prefer discussion.

    Thanks.



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    #10189
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You cant make the fancy memes when you are dead.

    "A QAnon and anti-vaccine podcaster has died from complications due to COVID-19 after contracting the virus at a conspiracy theory conference that turned into a superspreader event, and where fellow attendees baselessly blamed their illness on an anthrax attack."

    https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/akvkjk/anti-vax-podcaster-doug-kuzma-dies-from-covid


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #10190
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    So Pfizer have applied to the FDA for emergency use approval of a booster with a new formula - Pfizer and BioNTech Submit Application to U.S. FDA for Emergency Use Authorization of Omicron BA.4/BA.5-Adapted Bivalent COVID-19 Vaccine

    And just in case anybody thought there was no further steps that could be skipped in order to speed up vaccine development you were wrong. Now they're asking for approval without clinical trial data. They have pre-clinical data!!

    Pre-clinical data showed a booster dose of Pfizer and BioNTech's Omicron BA.4/BA.5-adapted bivalent vaccine generated a strong neutralizing antibody response against Omicron BA.1, BA.2 and BA.4/BA.5 variants, as well as the original wild-type strain.

    Of course they do intend to investigate the safety and efficacy of this vaccine, expecting to start a study this month. But sure why bother wasting time worrying about clinical studies if the FDA will approve without them!!

    A clinical study investigating the safety, tolerability and immunogenicity of the Omicron BA.4/BA.5-adapted bivalent vaccine in individuals 12 years of age and older is expected to start this month.

    And no doubt once the emergency approval is issued the vaccine fanatics will use this authorisation as evidence that the vaccines are proven to be "safe and effective".



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    #10191
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119509076#Comment_119509076

    There's no such thing as "vaccine fanatics" or "extreme pro vaxxers" though.


    Conspiracy theorists and anti vaxxers will however will gripe and moan that the new boosters will not have enough safety studies regardless of what actually happens or what ever the trials and approvals actually say.


    And just cause the topic seems to be moving yet again, can we confirm that we are abandoning the claims that the vaccines have a clear link to a decline in fertility?



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    #10192
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119509278#Comment_119509278

    There's no such thing as "vaccine fanatics" or "extreme pro vaxxers" though.

    Prof Martin Kulldorff disagrees with you. From 2003 to 2021, he was a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School. He is a member of the Food and Drug Administration's Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee and a former member of the Vaccine Safety Subgroup of the Centers for Disease Control’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.

    These vaccine fanatics who insisted that everybody should be vaccinated, including those who already have immunity from having recovered from Covid, I think they have destroyed the confidence in vaccines in general, to an extent that a small group of pre-Covid, so-called anti-vaxxers had never succeeded.

    Conspiracy theorists and anti vaxxers will however will gripe and moan that the new boosters will not have enough safety studies regardless of what actually happens or what ever the trials and approvals actually say.

    🤣

    That cuts both ways. Vaccine fanatics will say we don't need any studies on safety and efficacy for approval if that's what Pfizer think.

    There has to be some room for common sense in the middle, which I'm suggesting is probably to wait until they have the clinical trial data before seeking approval.

    Pretty sure if 18 months ago a conspiracy theorist claimed that Pfizer would ultimately dispense with clinical trial studies on safety and efficacy before seeking approval they'd have been laughed out of it. Yet here we are, and that is exactly what is happening.

    And just cause the topic seems to be moving yet again, can we confirm that we are abandoning the claims that the vaccines have a clear link to a decline in fertility?

    Is this in any way relevant to my point about Pfizer seeking EUA without conducting clinical trials to investigate safety and efficacy?! Or just an attempt to deflect. I'm pretty sure nobody is stopping you discussing the claims that the vaccines have a clear link to a decline in fertility, nor is it a claim I have ever made, as you are well aware.



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    #10193
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119509461#Comment_119509461

    Is this in any way relevant to my point about Pfizer seeking EUA without conducting clinical trials to investigate safety and efficacy?! Or just an attempt to deflect. 

    Lol. no man, it's not deflection to try and keep the discussion on the topic that's been discussed for the last few pages.

    But ok, since you've not made that claim, do you agree that there's no evidence of link then?



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    #10194
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510000#Comment_119510000

    If it walks like an attempt to deflect, and quacks like an attempt to deflect, it's an attempt to deflect.



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    #10195
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510104#Comment_119510104

    He says while dodging the question.

    In that case I will take that people are indeed ditching the claim.

    I will also take that as you abandoning your previous claim that the paper I posted was fraudulent.



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    #10196
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510130#Comment_119510130

    If you want to discuss the point I raised in the post about Pfizer ditching clinical trials, super, let's discuss.

    Or if you want to continue your discussion about fertility with snowcat, go ahead, I am not trying to stop that, nor do I have anything interesting to add to it.

    But why respond to a post I make about Pfizer ditching clinical trials to try and make a point about me dodging questions about claims I never made on fertility rates?! It's tedious and transparent.



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    #10197
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    So where are we at with the conspiracy theory or theories at the moment? Any consensus from those pushing whatever the theories are, for us mere sheeple? Is it all about the money? If so who is involved and how has it been kept silent? Is it all about control for some reason? If so who is involved and how has it been kept silent? Is it an alien/reverse vampires/lizard people invasion? If so who is involved and how has it been kept silent?



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    #10198
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510169#Comment_119510169

    Sure. I've no issue with expressing my opinion. I already did.

    You however do not want to express your opinion on the claims about fertility because that would require you to disagree with a fellow anti-vaxxer.

    I would be interested in discussing your accusation that the paper I posted was fraudulent as that would actually be a conspiracy theory.



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    #10199
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510306#Comment_119510306

    No, there's no current conspiracies being discussed.



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    #10200
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,196 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510306#Comment_119510306

    Since I started posting on it a few months back, I think I read one comment mentioning 5g and Bill Gates and control...

    The rest are in the space of there's no wider agenda behind the vaccines other than big pharma \ money \ reputations \ invested political capital for pushing vaccines. The vaccines are intended as vaccines and nothing more - though posters think they are unsafe \ ineffective \ not warranted.

    Some of the objections are specifically about mRNA vaccines and their level of testing \ emergency approval.

    Some of the objections are about the vaccines being rolled out to everyone rather than just targeted groups.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #10201
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510383#Comment_119510383

    I would be interested in discussing your accusation that the paper I posted was fraudulent as that would actually be a conspiracy theory.

    You know as well as I do that I. have never accused that paper of being fraudulent. I have said the authors conclusions are only as good as the assumptions they are starting with. It's based on modelling that if you put garbage in, you will get garbage.

    I have said that I think their assumptions are optimistic. I have never said it was fraudulent.



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