How Pacifism looks to those abroad

Ah, are we going down the 'good' nationalist/bad nationalist road?

You can travel that road on your own lad. I could not be arsed. Suffice to say, the hypocrisy of some here is lovely to read.

Well in fairness, blowing up women and children and leaving bombs in civilian areas ARE all war crimes Francie.

But sure in another breath you guys will say it 'wasn't a war'. 😁

Hypocrisy writ large again...plenty of women and children have died in every conflict/war there ever was., killed by nationalists, imperialists, colonisers alike. No different in Ukraine sadly and tragically

I don't need the UN to tell me that killing another human being is a crime against humanity Mark.

'War' is a crime and allowing it to break out is a crime...especially when you have the power to prevent it happeing.

Correct Mark...and the list of war crimes carried out on this island includes more than just the guys and gals living rent free under your bed.

If you want to have a look at 'war crimes' here that were carried out by many protagonists, I'm up for that. What I will ignore is selective nonsense that only one cohort was responsible.

I have to say, I am delighted that you have accepted that it was a war. My point of blame is always to look at why a 'war' starts in the first place. Should we begin by looking at that?

So the take away here on the topic is, we are certainly not pacifists. The Irish will fight for what they believe in. And we don't wish to fight in wars we have no part in. We want to stay neutral.

Anything else to be said?

No, not officially as a country we haven't.

Yes, individuals have gone to fight in various wars, again disproving the idea that we are 'pacifists' Well pointed out Mike.

A word vomit of contradictions there Francie.

Who are 'we'?

Where did I say were are 'pacifists'?

You seem to be making up an argument that no one has made.

The OP mark- did you read it yet? It's making the case you helped to disprove.

We most certainly aren't 'pacifist'. 'We' the state was born out of fighting, as Mike said 1000's have gone off to fight for various causes and people here on the island have been fighting for what they believe in for decades.

Nonsensical nitpicking. Irish pacifism is not the same as the pacifism of Irish people.

Which amounts to how many?

I know S. Coyne made a plea in the Irish Times that was seen as pacifist and she got support for saying it. But I am not sure that there are many out and out pacifists echoing the content of what she said. Most of the support I seen was of the 'she has the right to a voice' variety. Hence asking about an organisation.

Our neutrality was engendered by people who had proved they were many things but 'pacifist'. They aren't really linked in that respect.

Yes, certainly a factor after our very recent dealings with them. Many in the Dáil would have fought and negotiated with them.

Would have been like asking Poland to hook up with Germany after the war.

Funny how mistrust of the British state and their motives seems to be a cyclical thing.

Yep...all sovereign nations with the freedom to go their own way. More power to them.

NATO thread thataway >>>>>

Funny how the post-colonial mentality has persisted in some circles driving their opposition to everything British and showing up their inability to look at the merits of each argument. Neutrality isn't something in and of itself to them, it is just not being aligned with the British. Just look at the way that some posters on here have ended up as effective Putin apologists as a result.

Small-minded anti-British bigotry has made fools out of them.

Not trusting the British state after the events of achieving independence was a very astute move in my opinion. The multi faceted Dev, played a blinder in that regard and saved a fledgling state. We can debate what if's until the cows come home about what the consequences of joining WW2 officially would have been.

Funny how it has become a cyclical thing. Would you trust the British state currently blanch?

The clear obsession on the part of many posters on here to ensure that they are anti-British in everything they post, to the extent that they oppose NATO, opposed EU until recently, excuse Putin, etc. without considering any of those issues on their merits displays how they are trapped by post-colonial thinking.

Someone like me can say that the British Army was wrong on Bloody Sunday, but we should be active in defence of Europe on its merits. On the other hand, the typical post-colonial mentality on display here would say that the British are evil incarnate and we should therefore not join NATO and they are to blame for Russia invading Ukraine. It is quite sad to see how they are prisoners of their past.

Which is why I used the word 'currently'.

Its amazing how the Poles can join a military alliance that has Germany in the mix, given the history between those two nations. Yet we have edgelords in Ireland that still go on about 800 years of British oppression and blah blah blah, in a way to take Ireland out of the Western International system in NATO and the EU.

The poles receive protection and support from the germans. Why would we join Nato when no country is an immediate threat to us or even have a bilateral agreement with the British when they engage in foolish misadventures like in Iraq and Afghanistan

Why won't you give a straight answer to a straight question?