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Bit confused here...

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  • 21-08-2022 6:18pm
    #1
    GoatGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭


    So I am posting on here, to vent. I need to get this out, off my chest.

    I dont have anyone I feel I can confide in. He is my best friend, I tell him everything...this is not reciprocated, as he battles with communication about serious matters. When I confront him about his behaviour or even just my feelings, he shuts down and turns it all against me. Counselling is not an option.

    So, a bit of back story. I found out a few years ago that he was having an emotional affair with someone in the beginning of our relationship. At the time of finding out, the 'affair' had ended, however they still remained friends and were still in contact with each other on a friendly basis from time to time. He swore it wasn't an emotional affair, they were just friends, and maybe the flirting went a bit far, and thats when it stopped. I truly think he really saw it that way. It took a while, but I did decide to forgive him, and move on. I asked him to delete her from his social media life, which he refused to do. This part has bugged me a lot. 

    Now, just this weekend...he has been in contact with her. The conversation went a bit far. Yes, I admit, I found this out by doing some digging...so I am in the wrong there. I know. They have not been in contact for years, and this has really thrown me. I am desperate to confront him, but I am just not prepared for the massive fight it will be. He will turn it against me (due to the way I found this out) and we will end up having a completely non productive argument. He will not listen to me logically, and he will not acknowledge my feelings about this. It will end up with him pushing me away. Probably because he totally feels guilt.

    I do not want our relationship to end. I just want to understand what he is thinking. Is this even possible? I know none of this is personal to me, I know no matter who he married, he would be doing this to her too. I just dont understand his need to keep this woman in his life when he knows its wrong and he knows how much hurt it has caused in the past.

    I know I need to talk to him, but I do need to calm down first. If I don't want the relationship to end, is it even worth bringing it up? 



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    #2
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,814 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    What is your relationship? Married, engaged, living together, any kids?



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    #3
    GoatGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭GoatGirl


    Married. 2 kids



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    #4
    Wezz
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Wezz


    No one can tell you why he does what he does, possibly he doesn't even know the answer to that himself.

    Keeping this to yourself and moving on as if you hadn't read the messages is not an option, you've opened Pandora's box now and there is no going back from that.

    If you don't bring it up it will just fester and eat away at you and that will probably end the relationship anyway. To move on from something like this is only possible if the person doing the wrong thing admits to it, acknowledges the hurt caused and works on ways to deal with it. It doesn't sound like your partner is willing to do that. No one can tell you what to do but if I was in your shoes I would have to say it and I think I'd be looking for a full commitment to fixing the problem i.e counselling or I'd be leaving.

    I don't condone snooping but clearly something has given you reason to suspect him. You said its "years" since he was last in contact with this person and yet the weekend you look at his phone is the weekend he was talking to her. Sorry but I don't believe in coincidences and I would imagine he has been in contact with her for much longer.



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    #5
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,071 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    If you don't want to end the marriage then you have to accept that she will always be a factor. You have asked him, reasonably it would seem, to cut her out of his life. He hasn't.

    So now you're left with a decision...



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    #6
    YellowLead
    Registered Users Posts: 7,880 ✭✭✭YellowLead


    Personally I see major red flags when one party has to demand the other cut somebody out of their lives and spy on their phones (given it wasn’t an actually affair) as opposed to just trusting them. To me it’s either trust, or break up - but each to their own.

    Is the reason you don’t want the relationship to end because you love him dearly? Or because you have two kids together and you feel leaving would be too difficult?

    When you say it went too far do you mean it got romantic / sexual?



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    #7
    TheadoreT
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭TheadoreT


    How often do you check his phone? If they only got back in contact this weekend are you looking for this regularly or was there something in particular that made you suspicious this time?

    Anyway it doesn't sound like the most fun existence.

    You're too acceptent of everything here. He won't go to counselling, he won't open up, he won't delete her from social media, he'll turn everything on you. You've allowed all that.

    From his selfish perspective why would he change? His inaction on these fronts has you obsessed(in an unhealthy way). But again selfishly that's good for him, as I'd imagine the sex life is quite good here if you're always pent up as you sound.

    Obviously with kids involved you'll not want to end this on a whim but you'll need to at least consider it an option if he doesn't change his ways. If he has no fear of repercussions for his actions he'll continue to dismiss your complaints as probably just you nagging him. Try reclaim some power here as the dynamic is far too one sided.



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    #8
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    "So I am posting on here, to vent. I need to get this out, off my chest.

    I dont have anyone I feel I can confide in. He is my best friend, I tell him everything...this is not reciprocated, as he battles with communication about serious matters. When I confront him about his behaviour or even just my feelings, he shuts down and turns it all against me. Counselling is not an option."

    Well you have vented it and maybe that's all you need to do. Be careful about taking advice from anyone here too seriously inc myself. It's your marriage and there are 2 children.

    Your second para is the one to think off - so you are married almost certainly knowing that this was his character. No one is perfect and maybe that's just how it is, I don't think you'll change him off your own bat, too many women try to change their partners and it's resented. Only he might do that in time or maybe not. As long as he's a good partner otherwise to you & children, well that's main thing.

    Men do look at other women, think about other women - part of the male mindset, you can't eliminate human nature. But as long as it's 'look & don't touch', that's about the way of it.



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    #9
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    The emotional affair happened at the beginning of the relationship. You say it was a friendship that turned a bit flirty and he stopped it. In his mind he probably sees it as he did the right thing and stopped it when it went too far. Therefore no need to be deleting anyone?

    I don't think anyone is going to remove people from their lives at the start of a relationship? But (so far as you know) he hasn't been in touch with her for a long time (presumably you're monitoring who he's talking to?). So the friendship seemed to have stopped?

    I think there's a disconnect between you both about what constitutes an emotional affair. It's one thing to do it at the beginning of a relationship, but now you're married with kids it's a totally different ball game.

    You could start off by saying look I know I was in the wrong, I snooped I found the conversation and although you don't believe there's any harm in talking to some one like that, I feel its a total breach of trust and crosses the line. Ask him how would he feel if you were messaging a friend like that and apply that thinking to himself.

    There are breaches of trust on both sides, but this is what can happen when there is a lack of communication and things go unresolved.



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    #10
    GoatGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭GoatGirl


    All of these comments are valid and I have thought and realised these before. There are times when you just need to hear it from someone else I suppose.

    We are both wrong. I know what I did was a breach of his trust, but just because I found out the way I did, surely doesn't make what he is doing right? We are all human, and men do look at other woman, and the other way round. To me though, he has crossed the line by communicating with her and keeping it a secret.

    I asked him to cut ties with her, he did not. I had to accept that. We both clearly have trust issues that need to be addressed. As @TheadoreT stated, a lot of it is my fault - I have been too accepting and have allowed him all he demands.



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    #11
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Hang on…your issue is not the content of the messages but just that he has contact with her at all? That’s unreasonable, especially since you knew he hadn’t wanted to delete her in the first place.

    What made you check on him? i bet things aren’t as rosy as you are making out. Not every person who has an affair does this out of pure selfishness, and it’s often a case of someone missing something essential in their relationship. If you want to resolve this property then find out what he is missing and craving, rather than accusing him of cheating. Particularly if the messages now aren’t even of a sexual nature.



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    #12
    GoatGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭GoatGirl


    Never said its all rosy. It most definitely isn't. I don't want to end it because I do love him, we have kids.

    The relationship crossed a line this weekend..it did become sexual. That is what I have an issue with. If they remained platonic friends, then yes, it's unreasonable of me. But my gut just knew that wouldn't happen. And I was right.

    I have a great amount of thinking to do and as others have said...either I ignore it and let it fester or deal head on. I cannot accept another person in my marriage, so that leaves me with one option.



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    #13
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    What exactly do you mean by "emotional afair"? Was/is he romantically attached to her? Was/is he in love with her? How has it become sexual? Are they propositioning each other?



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    #14
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    So he had an emotional affair years ago, and as of this weekend he is suddenly been in contact with her again, and the messages have become sexual right away? After years of no contact? This makes no sense at all.

    What was it that made you check his messages?

    And what is the one option you think you have now? You haven’t even spoken to him yet. I can guarantee you that the conversation will not go well if you are unwilling to discuss what is missing in your relationship, and focus on focus entirely on him being in the wrong.



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    #15
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,071 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    A poster has posted about issues she is having in her marriage. Her husband is in contact with someone he has history with. She obviously suspected something was going on again, checked for herself and was proven correct. If she hadn't checked, he wouldn't own up to it. She knows her husband and her relationship better than anyone here.

    Can posters please advise the woman on how to proceed now. The tone of the thread seems to be edging towards blaming her for her husband's behaviour. 1 post has already been deleted and the poster warned not to post in this thread again. Some other replies are skating very close to the line.

    Mature, constructive, civil advice please. Or don't post.



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    #16
    ChickenDish
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭ChickenDish


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503781#Comment_119503781

    Regardless of how you found out, your husband is in the wrong. People's moral compass seem to be out of whack on this one. Your gut told you their was something amiss and you acted upon it, his actions/behaviour lead you to investigate further and you gut feeling was spot on. The only thing your guilty of is being cheated on.

    Its time to sit down with the husband and see if you marriage can be salvaged. I think you already know what you need to do, its simply a case of you building up to it. Good luck OP.



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    #17
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    We are both wrong. I know what I did was a breach of his trust, but just because I found out the way surely doesn't make what he is doing right


    Not in the slightest, and both are not equal. But you say you're dealing with someone who doesn't do conversation or communication and who pushes everything back on you. Therefore, if you start off by saying there's breach on both sides you're addressing the very thing he's going to push back on you from the off.

    You have to decide for yourself, but there's no way I could let it lie and say nothing regardless of whether I had already decided I was going to stay or not.



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    #18
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    While everyone's entitled to their privacy, I don't agree that when you are married with kids, that it's wrong to investigate when you have serious reason to believe that something threatens your home life, your relationship, and your kids' future. I've never snooped my husband's phone, not in 18 years, but you can be damn sure that if he was acting weird or cagey, I would - and I would not for one second apologise for it.

    Clearly there was unfinished business there from before, and now it's turned into sexual chat, it's bang out of order. But you don't want your marriage to end. And to be honest, I think that when a person knows that about their spouse, they know it's a risk-free dalliance - or that he can explore a new relationship with the safety net of the old one to fall back on if it doesn't work out. He's got nothing to lose, has he? You've said yourself that you don't want the marriage to end.

    You've said that confronting him and asking him to explain himself will only result in him shutting down and turning it back on you but that's only because you want him to see where you are coming from. But he doesn't want to. He knows where you are coming from. He knows what he's at. He knows that this woman is a line being crossed in his marriage but he's still doing it. And even if you confront him, and he denies it or calls you all sorts of things for looking in his phone - you know what's going on. You saw it. You don't need his agreement, or him to admit the truth. You know what you saw and that's enough.

    If he's got feelings for her, you can't change that. If he wants to have an affair, you can't change that either. And if he wants to leave you for her, you won't be able to stop him. You can only control your own actions. You could, confront him and demand he cuts contact - but what are you going to do if he says no? Where do you go from there? You could ignore it but that's going to eat away at you over time - every time his phone goes, your stomach will lurch wondering, and you can't live like that. Or you could value yourself enough to realise that he isn't deserving of your loyalty, that he's had his chance and blown it spectacularly and decide you don't want to live your life with a man who has proven to be utterly untrustworthy.



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    #19
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503781#Comment_119503781

    He had an emotional and now sexual relationship with another women and you have a lot of thinking to do? Come on! Think you are just avoiding the issue. You know this is wrong. You have to decide for yourself what path to take. But for yourself, you cannot stay on the current path. Nobody deserves treatment like that.



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    #20
    GingerLily
    Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    Would you be able to give more detail about what happened this weekend between your husband and this other woman?



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    #21
    marilynrr
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    Even leaving this issue with the woman aside, this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship. Stonewalling, gaslighting and pushing you away for trying to communicate about relationship issues.

    "We are both wrong. I know what I did was a breach of his trust"

    They are not comparable in any way. You said he shuts down after confrontation and turns it all on you, that trains you not to bring issues up, and in that position many people will snoop if they feel like something isn't right, as talking won't get them anywhere.

    You're in a very difficult position here as he is very unlikely to change how he deals with conflict. I would consider those messages to be cheating, especially as you now said it turned sexual. I would consider the way he acts when you try to communicate to be abusive, it doesn't really matter if it is intentional manipulation, or if it's unintentional, the end result is still the same, the impact on you is the same, you've read sexual messages to another woman and haven't felt comfortable enough to be able to bring it up because of the repercussions you will face for doing so.

    You deserve a lot better. I understand you love him and don't want the relationship to end, but he might take that choice away from you anyway.

    He is actually more likely to continue to keep this up or worse if he sees you as a pushover.



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    #22
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I think people need to hang back from telling this woman to ditch her partner on the basis of a few posts here. Not least what does the OP mean by "The relationship crossed a line this weekend..it did become sexual." Did they actually meet and have sex behind her back or was this chit chat on his phone? Quite a big difference, yes you could say the latter is the slippery slope. But in truth, if nothing happened, not much difference between her partner thinking about another woman and writing about it.



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    #23
    Liberty_Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Liberty_Bear


    Emotional cheatings can constitute a whole different boundary to different people. At one end of the spectrum some people have open relationships and to others the fact that an ex is still a facebook friend can be upsetting. There is no one right answer. If there is a history with that woman then its a question of trust, reflect on how much you trust him and maybe set some boundaries. Explain how the woman makes you feel. I would feel differently if it was an ex from when before he met you but if he was involved somehow with her to an extent you felt was cheating then maybe establish rules. In my own personal view - I wouldnt be too bothered about if my other half was a man and was best friends with a woman or they flirted, that is my own personal boundaries. However for yourself this may be different. Remember to have confidence in your own decision making and big hugs



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    #24
    marilynrr
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    Disagree completely @Furze99

    There's a huge difference just thinking about having sex with someone else, and sexting someone else. Most people consider that to be cheating or at the very least borderline cheating. The husband is also fully aware that his wife would have a problem with this as she has previously asked him to delete her after she found out about the history, but he decided to betray her anyway. That behaviour is not ok. And from the description she has painted of her husband he sounds like when she confronts him he'll turn it around on her and probably continue to do what he's doing.

    That's why people are saying to ditch him. If he won't change his behaviour and shuts down communication then that is a soul destroying situation for any person to be in and they can only do it for so long before it affects them massively. No one should have to put up with their husband sending sexual messages to another woman.

    By the sounds of it her husband is going to do lots of minimising, so I think it's important that people tell the OP that no something like that is definitely something that you don't have to put up with....and sometimes the only way to 'not put up with' something is by ending the relationship because the other person won't change.



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    #25
    Zak Flaps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭Zak Flaps


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058259772/bit-confused-here

    So when you confront your husband about his bad behaviour, he turns it all against you? He has an emotional affair, it ends, but he refuses to cut ties with the girl? He contacts her again and it turns more sexual? And you still love him??????

    I think you need to have some more respect for yourself and act appropriately. This guy obviously has none for you.



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    #26
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119508799#Comment_119508799

    The OP has not explained fully what she found out through her partner's phone etc., so hold judgement on that. Telling someone blithely to ditch their husband and father of 2 children, on the basis of little hard info, is reckless imho.



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    #27
    marilynrr
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511437#Comment_119511437

    She said it went a bit far and turned sexual, that's enough to know. That sows the seed of doubt and is enough to make someone extremely distressed and constantly second guess what their partner is up to. It's a miserable existence.

    The incident also can't be separated from the other issues she mentions about him.

    I don't think it's reckless, as no one leaves their husband and father of their children based on random people on the internet telling them to. We are simply trying to tell her that the behaviour is not acceptable and that she does not have to put up with. And again I think that that is important, because her husband will most likely minimise and not communicate about this...and also many mothers unfortunately feel like they have to put up with poor treatment for the sake of the keeping the family together for the kids, so sometimes they need to be told that it IS ok to leave if things happen that make them unhappy. Telling someone that doesn't push someone to leave who doesn't want to or need to.



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    #28
    Jequ0n
    Registered Users Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    @marilynrr No it’s not enough to know to tell someone to end their relationship, particularly if they posted in a forum to get a perspective how to deal with this situation.

    Nobody here knows what the “sexual nature” of the conversation was. It could have been a comment on her having a nice ass up to trying to arrange a meeting.

    The OP has admitted that there are issues in the relationship, so his behaviour might simply be a symptom. This might be their chance to sort out their differences.



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    #29
    marilynrr
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512298#Comment_119512298

    Op has said herself that she can't accept another person in her marriage.

    I would give the same advice to my daughter..

    It doesn't matter if WE don't know the sexual nature. OP knows and OP knows they can't accept another person in her marriage, that's all that matters.

    Perhaps it will be the chance to sort out the relationship as you said but generally with people with communication issues like the OP described the issues won't be sorted out. The ideal of course would be that he cops on, communicates properly and cuts the woman out and OP is happy to move forward and it's never an issue again. Is that likely to be what happens? Unfortunately not. The husband in this case will have an opportunity to do that and show her that when she speaks to him!!!!

    But most likely she'll get more of the stonewalling and gaslighting and no commitment for him to change or cut the woman out.



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    #30
    marilynrr
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    @onetimeaha If the husband wants to surprise the OP by actually discussing it appropriately and allows her to express her concerns and feelings I will be very happy for her. Chances are that he won't.

    And as for her engaging in coercive control, that's nonsense. It is NOT coercive control or attempt to control to ask someone not to speak to someone they had an emotional affair with or behaved inappropriately with. Don't be ridiculous. Therapists always tell couples in this situation that the third party has to be cut out if they want the relationship to work.

    I'm sure her husband wouldn't like her messaging other men about their cocks....and if he saw she was sending a 'friend' messages of a sexual nature and tried to pass it off as harmless friend stuff then that is just plain lying.



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    #31
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,071 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    @onetimeaha, welcome to Personal Issues/Relationship Issues Forum. Please read the forum charter before posting in this forum again.

    Accusing a poster whose husband has a history of an inappropriate relationship with another woman of coercive control because she doesn't want him to have (more) inappropriate contact with her is not coercive control. It's a phrase thrown around this forum too often when the circumstances don't fit.

    @marilynrr you are reminded that replies in this forum are to be directed to the OP, offering advice. Your replies have a tendency to be addressed at other posters and getting into over-and-back argument with other posters, which isn't really helpful to an OP who is struggling with their own problem.



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