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Can Sinn Fein fix the housing crisis or is it beyond them or anybody else?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A housing crisis is not a charter for bad and inappropriate planning or the ignoring of regulations etc. That only causes problems down the road as we have seen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Political parties, as we all know, are not blocking for bad planning.

    As we all know Sinn Fein took over DCC, at the end of their term not only did they build very few social houses, they actually sold more and ended up with less houses in 2019 than DCC had in 2014.

    That is shocking with a huge growth happening in Dublin during this period.

    With the constant blocking of houses across Ireland and especially in the Dublin region, with nothing to do with bad planning. Maybe Sinn Fein and supporters can explain why? because to me it looks very much like a plan to making the housing crisis worse at every opportunity.

    The constant posting by a few people gloating about how bad the homeless numbers are in ireland is awful as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    'financialisation, a catastrophic failure'! it ll take years to get a handle on it, people would want to seriously reduce their expectations in sf sorting it to.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    The problem gets worse year on year. So it stands that the younger crew will be the most disenchanted with the whole thing.

    We went from slums to council housing that we built to leasing from investment companies. Thats why we've more homeless children than we had in the slum days of the 1930's.

    Now we're allowing private investors drive up pricing. The state is the customer for some of these and paying what's asked, this is causing pricing to stay high as the market is rigged.

    People are growing up knowing they are screwed for an affordable rent and buying is a fantasy. We need to stop relying on private investment funds and bar government politicians like Troy from engaging in the property market. Its a conflict of interest IMO. We should be blocking REIT build to rents and have the same firms build for us



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    But what is this based on though? It seems more like perception to me to say that young people feel that it is "owed" to them that things be cheap. Ireland has been an expensive country for quite some time and has been doing better than ever at retaining and attracting young people. They have the qualifications and talent to feck off to London, the US, Australia, the Middle East etc., So the idea that they "expect" Ireland to be cheap is a non-runner of an argument. Expecting to be able to find an affordable home is not the same as expecting things cheap.

    The "young people are just entitled" argument seems a particularly odd conclusion to draw when you look at the market right now in Dublin (and beyond) -- tiny apartments being rented out at €2,000+ monthly and that's if you can even get a response for a viewing. I just cannot get my head around how anyone looks at that situation and somehow forms the narrative that it's actually the attitude of young people which is the problem.

    You talk about young people having "jobs and pay" that older people wouldn't have had. Well, they are also dealing with enormously higher costs to find a home that those jobs and pay aren't making a dent in.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    You post this every day. We answer, you ask again the next day. Much of what you complain about is describing your own actions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Yet to see an answer

    It is worth posting hourly to be honest. This is a party claiming to fix housing and when they had a chance running the biggest Council they ended up with less houses than they started with.....

    3, 2, 1 its XYZ fault



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You have been fact checked on this again and again.

    The majority of blocking is on the basis of bad planning or sweetheart deals with developers etc.

    There will be no return to Galway Tent/lax regulations days, crisis or not. The results of that has cost us too much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Ahh an event from 15 years ago is so relevant, one the ropes either fire out "Galway tent" or the "Black & tan" event

    Galway tent was so grubby, standing in a field beside a horse track, who in their right mind would be at that. It's 2022, now we fly business class to Australia to wine & dine. Nobody stands in a field anymore

    Let stick to the topic. The fact SF put all social housing in Dublin into minus figures during a huge population growth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think you should listen back to News At One, the Galway Tent ethos never really left, it just went underground and FG and FF seem determined to circle the wagons to defend it.

    If you continue to think this government even want to fix the problems much less have the ability to do it, then you are deluded.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Troy thread 👉️

    The current discussion on this thread is about Sinn fein managing to end up with less houses than they started with when running DCC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭skinny90


    the solution here isnt a difficult one.

    It needs government backing and more control of the market

    As it stands in the market people are getting outbid by not just their peers who can afford more but by property investors, property mgmt companies and councils.

    The days of council build estates or state owned estates are beyond us however taken a developer lead approach we can still get great control over the market.

    If the government was to create greater incentives for developers to build affordable housing but in a more controlled manner I think it would stabilize the market completely.

    However the market needs to be controlled and separated in such a way that we are not all in the same pot per say.

    This is the huge issue I have with schemes like help to buy, its a scheme that on principal helps a lot but as a result it has driven prices of new build upwards too.

    Along whats currently going on, if we were to reclassify a special grade of estate say its called "affordable houses" where

    a) developers would get greater tax relief, greater buying power and or relief for materials, long term contracts/jobs for building affordable housing, creating more jobs as a result etc

    b) they are open to just a defined cohort of folks who can buy aswell as state bodies/councils

    The idea of this being an investment opportunity for someone must be ruled out by form of tax

    d) huge disincentives to sell an "affordable house", ie significant taxes increases irrespective of the private market(forexample if you bought a house for say 150K the exempt higher tax sale price would be 150K or less. If you decided to sell for more you get hit with a crazy outragous tax that doesnt make it worthwhile.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The numbers say the majority of houses in Ireland are been bought by home owners and not investment firms. But we also need investment firms buying because we need rental properties and reduction in rents

    The plan of building huge estates of social houses/affordable houses etc has been stopped for obvious reasons. The method is now to build estates with a mix and hope that will stop social issues long term.

    If you look at housing the big thing is the cost to build, you need to reduce the cost to build. Developers spending years in court with legal fees while getting blocked by political parties drives up the cost of houses for everyone. The developer is just passing this cost onto the home owner. So streamlining the planning process to stop these pointless rejections will help reduce costs.

    I think we should all have an open discussion on housing. But one of the main issues I see is before a brick even gets laid we have millions spent in legal fee which has to be stopped. I go back to the apartment in Dundrum and a resident is blocking the entire thing because they think in the morning it might cast a shadow on their house. Crazy stuff

    In regards to end point, you can't massively tax someone because they have to move. Someone buys a home and then 5 years later has to leave because of work. They want to buy a house and you want to tax them out of it to sell it? No chance that would be acceptable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    It's false and tbh, spamming the same tale about DCC a few years ago in response to a decade old housing crisis were we've broke records in every area, nationally, is kinda desperate.

    Maybe don't bother the pretending to ask questions when all you want to do is spam propaganda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    It's the truth and because it shows Sinn fein in a negative you are calling it "spamming"

    Sinn Fein supporters constantly tell everyone that we can't judge Sinn Fein on the terrible performance in the North. Now we are supposed to ignore their terrible performance in local government as well?

    It seems you don't have the same issue when you and others spam every thread with "Galway races" and the "Black & Tan" event.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ....and many older generations who are in fact property owners, hardly object to building, and hardly advocate for polices that make sure that whatever needs to be done to maintain protections of their assets, in particular their value, and keep voting for parties that do such!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    I always find it interesting when you see these people who are rejecting everything in the area trying to say it will hurt the value of their property. Anytime apartments are mentioned you hear something about Ballymun. Totally ridiculous carry on.

    The same people a few weeks later are complaining because wee Jonny can't buy a house down the road to them and its a disgrace.

    This sort of ridiculous rejections should be stopped. It is costing millions and majority have nothing to do with quality of the house been built etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    No, I call it spamming because you post it everyday and said it should be posted every hour.

    You are misrepresenting DCC council, a number of years ago, as a deflection for over a decade of a national housing disaster. Its desperate. And you refuse to acknowledge its not improving under FF/FG who control DCC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Why don't you knock on the doors of your FF, FG and Green politicians and tell them to stop the frivolous complaining?

    Leo Varadkar’s objection — sent in June of this year — was to the development of a former pub in Dublin 15, where plans were submitted for 41 apartments. In a letter to Fingal County Council, he said: “I am certain it will impact on the residential amenity and property values of neighbouring homes.”




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The numbers are available here:(see below)

    Programmes 2018 2019 2020 2021 Total

    New Build – DCC 271 302 455 1,860 2,888

    New Build - AHB’s 403 343 284 609 1,639

    Once Sinn fein was taken out of DCC the numbers went up. Massively went up!!!! even with Covid

    But as I said the most damning part of Sinn Fein running DCC is they managed to end up with 1300 less houses in 2019 than they started with in 2014

    How many people would be off the street if Sinn Fein even managed to keep the same number of houses they had in 2014. 1300 homes with minimum 2 people per home is 2600 people off the homeless list.

    Terrible that people are on the street because of Sinn Fein and to make matters worse, Sinn Fein keep blocking the projects that could replenish these houses

    https://dublininquirer.com/2019/03/20/council-owns-1-300-fewer-social-homes-than-four-years-ago



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    If you read my comments I said to contact all TD's.

    👌

    I want the homeless crisis resolved. I have been crystal clear on that



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I want the homeless crisis resolved. I have been crystal clear on that

    Don't vote for any of the government parties that have presided over record breaking homelessness for over a decade so.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just to clarify one thing...........

    DCC or any other local authority don't have any money to build houses, they get government grants to buy or build. The reason no houses were built by DCC is not the fault of the councillors, be they SF or FF or what ever, it's because central governement didn't make the money available to the council.

    DCC did investigate borrowing money to build several years ago, but this idea was shot down by the government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So you are saying the government are not the primary fault of the mess housing is in?

    Cool story bro.

    If SF or any other party make the same mess in government then we can blame them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Horse leavings.

    Its complete nonsense that SF could or were responsible for housing because they'd more seats than any other party, but less than FF and FG combined while the housing and local authority minister was FG too. And currently FF have the most seats, are in government and things are worse.

    No need to relish the idea of more homeless. Not nice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Only if you want it to be their fault. Surely at this stage you understand that there are a multitude of reasons for our shortage of houses, many outside of the control of any government.

    But carry on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I dunno, you seem obsessed about DCC for a four year period. What about the rest of Dublin, the country for the last decade and currently?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,838 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So are you washing their hands of responsibility too.

    Tell me this Dav and BA, what buck stops with this government? Are they responsible for anything?



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