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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I’m replying to you because you were quoting me.

    So far there has been no evidence of Ukrainian war crimes, yet you had to mention them. There is loads of evidence of Russian war crimes though. If Ukrainian war crimes are committed I do trust that they will be investigated as the Ukrainian government said they would.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I did not mention Ukrainian war crimes. I specifically said that I wasn't implying anything like that, in brackets, so I wouldn't be misunderstood.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    How about Ukraine shelling a Nuclear Power plant endangering the lives of millions of Europeans? Whilst incredulously trying to convince the world that the Russians have suddenly started shelling their own soldiers for some unknown reason in a complex that they have already occupied for months.

    How about the Ukrainian forces filming and posting on social media videos of themselves kneecapping and executing captured Russian POWs?

    How about the daily shelling of Donetsk City and the dropping of outlawed petal mines where there are no russian military targets but just civilian residential areas? Whilst yet again trying to convince the world that the DPR are spreading them all over their home city to kill and maim their own people.

    How about deliberately firing a Tochka U missile into a crowded Kramatorsk Railway station and blaming the Russians on it even though the missiles debris showed a serial number proving it was Ukrainian Stock and could only have been fired from Ukrainian held territory?

    How about the whole Human Shield tactics in Mariupol?

    Not saying the Russians haven't got their own psycho crew with their own hideous atrocities like the chechen torture video but trying to say the Ukrainians have not committed any atrocities in months of warfare makes you come across as incredibly naive.

    Its war. It brings out the worst in mankind. No side is immune.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    How about Ukraine shelling a Nuclear Power plant endangering the lives of millions of Europeans? Whilst incredulously trying to convince the world that the Russians have suddenly started shelling their own soldiers for some unknown reason in a complex that they have already occupied for months.

    How about deliberately firing a Tochka U missile into a crowded Kramatorsk Railway station and blaming the Russians on it even though the missiles debris showed a serial number proving it was Ukrainian Stock and could only have been fired from Ukrainian held territory?

    You are using completely diametrically opposed logic in these two statements. Why would Ukraine fire a missile into their own fleeing citizens?

    Ukrainians have undoubtedly committed some crimes - I would be amazed if any army in history did not. It is quite clearly Russian policy to commit them (cf the brigade responsible for Bucha getting a presidential medal, as opposed to promises from the Ukrainian govt to investigate and punish the perpetrators of the POW crimes), and on a far, far larger scale. And the fact any of this is happening is entirely their fault.


    "Both sides"ism is utter abject nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Welcome back with your Russian propaganda and trolling. I do say trolling because yet again when you have been proven to be talking crap you disappear for a few days and try to latch onto something new.

    Civilians were sheltering from the indiscriminate shelling and destruction of the city of Mariupol. The Ukrainian army were doing what they should do against any invading force…protecting their people.

    As for the shelling of the nuclear power plant…evidence please. There is evidence of Russia using the turbine room as storage for vehicles however. Russians have shelled their own forces previously in the last few months, so it would be nothing new for them.

    Evidence please for the railway station attack. Also a reason! Why the hell does Ukraine need to attack and waste weapons on their own people when Russia commit enough atrocities without needing assistance? It has no benefit at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,294 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Another pack of Russian lies and propaganda without independent substantiation. Like your previous claims about the BBC report into the shooting of unarmed Maidan protestors - which the report directly contradicted & the Budapest Agreement which your liar in chief Lavrov wouldn't even stoop to.

    This is multiple times now you have accused Ukraine of actions you are 'outraged' about which all available evidence shows were conducted by Russia. And yet when the facts are clearly shown to you, there is no withdrawal of the false accusation, no redirection of the outrage to Russia. You just move onto the next angle in your attempt to 'both sides' the conflict.

    Why is Russia using a nuclear plant as a military launch pad for attacks? Russia are shelling nuclear fuel storage plants in the complex.

    Ukraine has said Russian shells landed close to where radioactive material is stored

    https://www.dw.com/en/russia-ukraine-updates-fresh-shelling-reported-at-ukrainian-nuclear-plant/a-62778568

    Initially, Russian state media and pro-Russian telegram channels claimed successful Russian airstrikes on a military transport target in Kramatorsk. After it became clear that the missiles had killed civilians, however, earlier reports were redacted, the Russian government denied responsibility for the attack, and the Russian Ministry of Defence characterized it as a Ukrainian hoax.[35][37] The Russian Ministry of Defence claimed that the missiles were launched by Ukrainian forces from the city of Dobropillia, southwest of Kramatorsk... The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed that their forces no longer use Tochka-U missiles. However, Amnesty International, the investigative journalists of the Conflict Intelligence Team, and a number of military experts had already reported the use of Tochkas by Russian forces in multiple parts of Ukraine prior to the strike on Kramatorsk... Serial numbers cannot be used to prove which side fired the missile, however, since all Tochka-U's were manufactured at a single site in Russia and distributed from there across the Soviet Union.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kramatorsk_railway_station_attack#cite_note-46

    Human Rights Watch has found evidence of Russia using “at least seven types of antipersonnel mines in at least four regions of Ukraine” since February 24, 2022. Ukrainian officials have estimated that up to 160,000 square kilometres in the country may be contaminated by unexploded landmines. Meanwhile, HRW has seen no evidence that Ukraine has used the mines, an action that would amount to a violation of the Ottawa Treaty. Still, accusations against both sides have flourished. 

    https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220817-ukraine-russia-donetsk-petal-butterfly-antipersonnel-mines

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    Im not on here everyday because I, you know , have a life where other things happen. No need for the troll accusations.

    "Why the hell does Ukraine need to attack and waste weapons on their own people when Russia commit enough atrocities without needing assistance?"

    If you believe Russia somehow killed people with missiles it doesn't use, launched from a point beyond their effective range at the time with Ukrainian registration numbers then you go ahead and think that. As for the motive we are talking about a time when they were telling the world that Russia had child rape dungeons and were massacring tens of thousands of civilians. All lies. Also Kramatorsk is in Donbass. A pro Russian area . Zelensky is conscripting thousands of his own citizens into sitting ducks for Russian artillery in the meat grinder front of the Donbass. Do you honestly think he would care about the citizens of a Russian friendly city? They were still at that stage hoping NATO would still get involved directly in the conflict.

    The one front that the Ukrainians have absolutely crushed the Russians in is the Public Relations war. Its all they are good at to be honest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,294 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    These lies cannot stand.

    The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed that their forces no longer use Tochka-U missiles. However, Amnesty International, the investigative journalists of the Conflict Intelligence Team, and a number of military experts had already reported the use of Tochkas by Russian forces in multiple parts of Ukraine prior to the strike on Kramatorsk... Serial numbers cannot be used to prove which side fired the missile, however, since all Tochka-U's were manufactured at a single site in Russia and distributed from there across the Soviet Union.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭fash


    As regards Russian use of "Tochka-U" - where have you been?

    Russia only denied using them for a few weeks after their attack on the train station - they were proudly talking about their Tochka-U attacks thereafter once it had served it's FUD purpose- plus there are videos with Tochka-Us being driven around known highways in Belarus, Russia etc.

    E.g.: https://www.newsweek.com/russian-official-accidentally-reveals-missiles-used-ukraine-tochka-u-1724266



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Mod: bobowen banned for 2 days for trolling. Please dont reply to his posts until he returns. If someone suspects trolling, report the post, please dont reply on thread



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I do not believe that Ukraine would have the capability to do this. They would need access to the vehicle, have the skill and munitions to plant the bomb, and escape undetected. It just is too fantastic to be true.

    It smells like an internal FSB action for whatever reason. Either a false flag or internal power struggle. I doubt it will become apparent anytime soon unless the next one gets Putin.

    Of course, it could have been James Bond on Truss's instructions.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Well exactly. Ukraine probably have a dart board of Russian assets and installations they'd love to hit - some Putin ally in Moscow couldn't possibly be one of them.

    I see it's Ukrainian Independence Day on Wednesday. The Russian response that day will be telling. Assuming you recognise Ukraine as sovereign. We know some here don't, however they dress it up in faux intellectual wittering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,486 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    This seems like a prudent move by the Ukrainians:





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,654 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Quickest investigation ever

    Almost as if they had all the evidence in advance...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,825 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Put them on the JFK case and watch them solve that in seconds, maybe figure out where the Malaysian airliner disappeared to..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Such cynicism. If Mussolini could make the trains run on time why cannot Putin do the same with the "justice" system?



  • Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ilkhanid



    And yet for all their investigative prowess they still can't get to the bottom of the Anna Politvivskaya and the Zarema Zadulayev-to name only two of several unsolved killings-murders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭Field east


    Yea - I understand that the investigators found a Ukr passport, a season ticket to the opera house in Kiev , a very recent receipt to the local SPAR in Liev - all totally up scorched !,,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,825 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Must be the world's worst terrorist to then leave a mountain of proof for the authorities.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    If you recall the July 2005 bombings in London, the police were unable to ascertain that a second attack was on the way a fortnight after the first, despite amassing a ton of evidence about the first four terrorists. A pity the FSB weren't there to solve it for them!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    No, I think the Birmingham six were much worse.

    Not only did they leave enough evidence to convict themselves by the standards of the West Midlands Constabulary (it did not take much), they were unable to effect their escape and were caught as they were catching the boat to Ireland. No amount of protesting their innocence had any effect for sixteen years, until at last the 'appalling vista'* that the British Judicial system had stitched them up like a kipper became overwhelming, knowing full well from the very beginning that they were totally innocent - but the establishment were too involved in the stitch up to admit it. Their excuse was that they needed a conviction - any conviction - to assuage public opinion baying for someone, anyone, to blame.

    As for Moscow, I doubt that anyone outside the FSB had anything to do with this explosion. It is remarkable that one of the supposed victims had changed his travel plans at the last minute. Was he tipped off? Or did he frequently alter plans at the last second because he feared exactly what came to pass? It is not as if this type of nasty end does not come to those close to Putin or opposed to Putin.

    Lord Denning, Master of the Rolls - 'This is such an appalling vista that every sensible person in the land would say that it cannot be right that these actions should go any further.'

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/appalling-vista-observation-stuck-1.160004



  • Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    So the leadership of the Third Reich is blameless?

    That argument's not gonna fly anywhere

    Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,654 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Interesting Zelensky talking about retaking Crimea.

    First priority would be to disable that newly built bridge



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Best wishes to all Ukrainians on their independence day.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Unless they would like to leave them as escape route.

    But cutting off a supply route would make more sense. With the new long range munitions, that could be the plan.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,825 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    I really don't see Russia letting Crimea fall back into Ukrainian hands.

    They'd throw everything they have at that not happening. You'd sooner take the Donbas back than that.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Ukrainians intend to take the Donbas and Crimea - every centimetre.

    Once any of it starts to fall, I would expect that Putin might take greater precautions wrt to travel, meetings, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,125 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Its all well and good that they intend to take it back - but practically how will they do it?

    At the minute they are losing territory in Nikolaev/Kherson front that they previously recaptured, and the Donbass front is a near stalemate



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    No question Putin would throw all he had into the meat grinder to keep Crime; but as Pershing noted, logistics win wars. We can't know whose would run into trouble sooner that Crimea became a theatre not worth pursuing.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Quite, but Crimea has no resources that would sustain it if they were cut off.

    Ukraine has sunk the Moskva flag ship and quite a few other warships in the Black Sea fleet that cannot be replaced because they are stopped from entering the Black Sea by way of the Bosporus.

    Assume Donbas is in major retreat by the Russians, then knock out the new bridge and close the water supply to Crimea, and then target military structures in the peninsula. Offer free transit to Russian army personnel back to Russia. Job done.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,125 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Assume Donbas is in major retreat by the Russians

    Thats a big assumption to make though - that Ukraine manage to knock the Russians out of not just Kherson but Donbas too.

    The Ukrainians will need 10 times whats been promised at the minute to pull off something like that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,486 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    A scenario where the Russians lose control of Crimea is one where everything is on the table. It would be an existential issue for Putin in particular.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    If the Ukraine make significant gains then Putin's position will be in peril.

    I think he would need to careful of which cup he drinks his tea from, which underpants he wears, and keeps away from cathedrals with high steeples. And check his transport for explosives. He will trust no-one.

    Are the sanctions achieving anything significant yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,825 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Reports coming out that the Russians have taken the nuclear plant off of the Ukrainian grid.

    If true then that's a serious change of events, if we start facing a catastrophic event, I wonder would NATO would view this as an attack?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Presumably it just means they're not letting Ukraine have access to power generated within russian territory. TBH was surprised they hadn't done this as soon as it fell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,825 ✭✭✭✭bear1




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Never said it was, only surprise that assets and infrastructure taken by Russia wasn't immediately disconnected from Ukrainian use the moment they fell. Unless it's some part of nuclear treaties that connections can't just be turned off between stations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,825 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    I'm guessing they want to scare the west as much as possible and probably "retaliation" for the bombing in Moscow.

    If something goes wrong, it's not like we will be the only ones to suffer so the only game I see here is to destroy Ukraine as much as possible.

    It's not like the west could help fix that.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    It's confirmed as connected back; it was disconnected due to fires having damaged the last cables to the plant (as per Enargoatom which is the Ukrainian nuclear department) (four connections; three damaged by bombing, fourth and final due to fire).

    6:38pm: Regular power line to Zaporizhzhia plant restored, Ukraine tells IAEA

    The last regular power line supplying electricity to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant (ZNPP) is working again after a temporary cut, the UN nuclear watchdog said, citing Ukraine.

    "Ukraine told the IAEA that the ZNPP, Europe's largest nuclear power plant, at least twice lost connection to the power line during the day but that it was currently up again," the International Atomic Energy Agency said in a statement, adding that information on the direct cause of the outage was not immediately available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    Apologies for the delay in responding. I was banned last week for not responding in time which apparently is troll behavour. I will now only post when I have the time to respond.

    "Why is Russia using a nuclear plant as a military launch pad for attacks? Russia are shelling nuclear fuel storage plants in the complex.Ukraine has said Russian shells landed close to where radioactive material is stored"

    That's not proof odyssey. As you always do you are using a biased source as evidence and then go on with the delusion that you have refuted an argument. You haven't and you never do. How does a link to an article from a pro western media source quoting a Ukrainian state employee prove that the Russians are shelling their own soldiers in a plant that they have occupied for months? You know it doesn't. They have no motive to do it. What do they have to gain by doing it? If there are vehicles with Z on them at the plant they are obviously there to protect the plant from sabotage. If Ukraine held the territory they would do the same. Thankfully the UN are arriving this week to put this ridiculous claim to bed. Hopefully.

    "The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed that their forces no longer use Tochka-U missiles. However, Amnesty International, the investigative journalists of the Conflict Intelligence Team etc etc"

    Both of these sources are biased. Amnesty International and HRW have from the start of the war been Anti Russia. Amnestys head office is based in London whilst HRW is based in New York. When the foot soldiers of Amnesty in Ukraine tried to report on the Ukrainian army committing war crimes by using civilians as human shields the Chief Executive Oksana Pokalchuk immediately resigned saying the report ‘became a tool of Russian propaganda.’ She had failed to suppress the truth and so had to go. The Conflict Intelligence Team has, along with Bellingcat and its open source partners, been pushing western security narratives for almost a decade now. They are in no way independent. But even they admit that the rockets position indicates that it came from the South East.

    "The photo of the wreckage clearly shows the rocket part of the "Tochka U". Photographs and videos show that the rocket part faces the northeast, which means that the missile may have arrived from the west, southwest or south". https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/8/7338164/

    Being the CIT they then go on to explain this uncomfortable scientific fact and blame this on the Russians by saying it could have been fired from a sliver of territory in the South that was just inside the 120km radius that Russia controlled at the time. First of all Russia stopped using Tochka's and replaced them with Iskanders for the very reason that the Tochka's accuracy was abysmal. Particularly at the full 120km range limit. There is not one piece of video evidence of a Tochka U missile being fired or transported by the Russians. What there is video evidence of is the Baz-5937 Transporters that were used. No missiles are on view. They are used for a number of things as this article from way back in 2012 states:

    "one self-propelled floating chassis (combat vehicle) of all combat vehicles, including radar stations and a launcher with missiles, and means of communication, navigation and toporavizka, control, as well as power supplies." https://en.topwar.ru/1174-baz-5937-plavayushhee-kolesnoe-shassi.html

    There are countless reports of Ukraine using Tochkas at that time as it was all they had before the training in western missile launching happened. They had the smoking gun and the motive. To prevent donbass civilians fleeing the area in order to keep them as human shields and to get more weaponry from the west. It was a week after the Bucha incident which was a huge PR gamechanger for the Ukrainians. They realised that anything they said the West would believe and support. Which they duly did.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭Economics101


    bobowen, you say: "Both of these sources are biased. Amnesty International and HRW have from the start of the war been Anti Russia. Amnestys head office is based in London whilst HRW is based in New York."

    Given the furore over Amnesty's recent performance on criticising Ukraine's deployment of forces in civilian areas, your idea of bias is a bit rich. Also, you imply that an organisation with a HQ in London or New York is not to be trusted. Can you indicate what are the restraints on freedom of expression in London or NY?



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    I gave an example of what happens when they're probably decent workers dare to not push the western narrative. Rest assured you will not hear another report like the one that caused the CEO to resign.

    "When the foot soldiers of Amnesty in Ukraine tried to report on the Ukrainian army committing war crimes by using civilians as human shields the Chief Executive Oksana Pokalchuk immediately resigned saying the report ‘became a tool of Russian propaganda.’ She had failed to suppress the truth and so had to go."

    And in relation to Human Rights Watch read this from the history section of their Wiki page:

    "Human Rights Watch was co-founded ....as a private American NGO in 1978, under the name Helsinki Watch, to monitor the then-Soviet Union's compliance with the Helsinki Accords." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch

    Its a relic from the cold war still pursuing the same Russophobic agenda.

    The management of these organisations are all part of the same Washington & European establishment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    So the thuggish snake Lavrov said yesterday that even if Ukraine pledged not to join NATO then Russia wouldn't withdraw troops and/or end the war.

    Like we didn't know they weren't lying all along.

    Russian ruling class = liars and thugs

    There's zero scope for negotiation with this thuggish country. The only way out of this Ukraine situation is a total defeat of Russia, elimination and removal of all occupation forces from the territory of Ukraine, signing of an international treaty guaranteed by the US, EU, several other parties and the UN, commitment to payment of war reparations (+ Russian asset seizures to recover the same) and establishment of a heavily defended buffer zone between Ukraine and Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    I cant find this speech anywhere from yesterday. No doubt its true. Its gone too far for peace negotiations now. Could you post link though please?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭fash


    As regards your assertion of "no evidence of Tochka-U being transported by Russians", here is, as just one example, a well known video (which was geolocated, but you can check it up yourself) of Russians moving Tochka-Us back through Belarus in March following Russia's failure to take Kyiv.

    Aside from that, the Russians repeatedly and triumphantly talk about their usage of Tochka-Us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    This is disgusting. Doesn't say much for Zelensky that he would propose this either. Trump was called a fascist for his 'muslim' travel ban for a few countries yet the EU are going to discuss this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    What is disgusting about it? Because it affects your motherland?

    It’s a great idea. The Russian population are complicit due to their inaction against the Russian leadership. Many can’t be trusted to be honest tourists. If things are to change in Russia to get them to stop raping, murdering, torturing, kidnapping adults and child stealing, then there has to be some impact on those with enough money to holiday abroad and who have benefited from Putins regime.

    Post edited by Fighting Tao on


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    It is xenophobic. It is penalising innocent people. You're talking about people being unable to visit family members.

    It's an outrageous proposal. It's like Irish people treated like **** in England during the IRAs time. Do you support Israel not allowing palestineans into Israel because Hamas are a terrorist organisation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I support that unknown people from a hostile country that has a long history of attacks, spying, interfering with the democratic process, and murders in other nations, are not allowed to enter Ireland. In this case it is Russia.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,291 ✭✭✭paul71


    Russia and Belarus have spent 2 decades sending agents into the EU to murder people in UK Germany and Czech republic, bomb factories, hijack Irish planes to kidnap passengers. They used Irish universities to create deep cover for an agent trying to enter the international criminal court offices in The Netherlands. Those murderers and spies used the VISA arrangements between the EU and Russia to commit these murders and crimes. The Visa arrangements should have been cancelled long ago, years before the war in Ukraine to safeguard EU citizens.



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