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Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    They got more than a 'little' help. Go out and get a job to support themselves. Getting a house for free or subsidised already, sure many working Irish people cant find anywhere to live never mind get free stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ah yes, because the Russians who occupy the plant and its grounds 100% (a plant which is not a frontline in any way), are also shelling the very plant they occupy. Makes perfect sense.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/satellite-images-show-no-signs-104000855.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    For someone who doesn't care about Russia you do go out your way to parrot the Kremlin talking points, probably just a coincidence so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Amnesty international never suggested Russia were not targeting civilian areas, that was on you buddy.

    Now if you could answer the question.

    What military presence was in Bucha?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,039 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Ah yes, the New Voice of Ukraine.

    From the same source lol https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-shelling-zaporizhzhya-tpp-ash-155800561.html

    So satellites show no signs of shelling or damage at the plant, but at the same time the russians are shelling the plant? Something doesnt add up, hm?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    That said the official civilian casualties are 4-5.5k which is relatively low for a six month conflict.

    The total official civilian casualties are

    • a total of 5,587 killed (2,161 men, 1,490 women, 149 girls, and 175 boys, as well as 38 children and 1,574 adults whose sex is yet unknown)
    • a total of 7,890 injured (1,603 men, 1,190 women, 172 girls, and 236 boys, as well as 202 children and 4,487 adults whose sex is yet unknown)

    Most of the civilian casualties recorded were caused by the use of explosive weapons with wide area effects, including shelling from heavy artillery, multiple launch rocket systems, missiles and air strikes.

    OHCHR believes that the actual figures are considerably higher, as the receipt of information from some locations where intense hostilities have been going on has been delayed and many reports are still pending corroboration. This concerns, for example, Mariupol (Donetsk region), Izium (Kharkiv region), Lysychansk, Popasna, and Sievierodonetsk (Luhansk region), where there are allegations of numerous civilian casualties.

    ~ https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/08/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-22-august-2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The source is an independent satellite company. Maybe read the article before making a holy show of yourself 😂




  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭slay55


    Ireland recorded biggest jump in population since 2008


    88,800 in the year to April 2022


    wonder what the figures will be for April 2023?


    oh well



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭slay55


    Maybe they just have to waive their passport or ask them to give it to them for free


    i actually wouldn’t doubt that



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,039 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Unable to read?

    The very same authors says that Russia are shelling the plant - yet satellite images show no signs of any shelling? Someone telling fibs



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,039 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    When the money runs out and energy becomes too expensive, maybe theyll turn around and leave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Maxar tech said they were shelling the plant?

    Really? I don't think so.

    Now here is where you need to disengage from whatever information BillyBob55 is feeding you and critically think about what could be happening.

    I'll give you a hint, it's a massive complex that creates energy. Asset for one side, Weapon for the other.

    Go!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    I presume these are all females as the males should be fighting for their country.

    We are supporting the women,children and elderly. The men are supposed to be doing their part by fighting for their country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    I didn’t specify anything about Bucharest. The report discusses the use of civilian locations by the military.



  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    After October 1th all women with no kids aged under 18 must report for service. That will add plenty more to tent city. Be hard to justify them coming when they should be back fighting instead of looking for state supports.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's Bucha, Bucharest is in Romania.

    You said it's questionable that Russia are targeting civilian areas.

    You can retract it you know. Not a hill I'd like to die on anyway. But that's up to you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,039 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The author of both articles was the New Voice of Ukraine. They quoted maxar technologies as a source in one such article. They also repeated claims of russian shelling the plant in another article. Not hard to follow, you just need to make sure to read posts a little bit clearer bud.

    Anyways seeing as Satellite images can prove no shelling occurring at the plant, that means the risk of nuclear incident at the plant is even lower than previously feared. One less reason for Ukrainians to have to flee their very large country, wouldnt you agree?



  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    There will be a lot more tent cities popping up everywhere the next 5 weeks so.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Really!? I'm not about to go back through the last few pages to find you examples, but the mild attacks range from "they're ungrateful, they're rude", "they've a sense of entitlement" and a general painting of them all as somehow unworthy of being here. The "they've all got big cars, I seem them parked up all day in their BMWs and I even saw one guy in a baseball cap!".

    Strange, I thought they were describing the Ukrainians that they have seen themselves. I don't suppose you're expanding their descriptions to include the overall group of Ukrainians. And in a general sense, for talking about macro issues, the term Ukrainian is going to put them together as a collective group for the attraction that Ireland serves for the supports/benefits the state is providing.

    But in any case, you've been on boards long enough, to realise that there are many posters on AH who post to get a reaction, and don't really believe what they're posting. These would be the posters who post once or twice, and disappear. Which I suspect is most of the extreme type comments like you paraphrased above.

    Apparently all of Ukraine is corrupt (absolutely **** rich, in a country that has had two tax amnesties and half a dozen tribunals in the last couple of decades, and currently has a minister responsible for corporate regulation apologising to the Dáil for not declaring his properties, lobbying for more funding for funds he benefits from, and not obeying fire regulations!)

    As opposed to the whitewashing of past Ukrainian status as being remarkably corrupt, to the extent that the fabric of their banking system was called into question due to the interference by their political system. Or that many of their politicians are businessowners who advocate for measures which benefited their industries, or even their interference in their High Court, and the laws brought about to increase their influence.

    Again, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Ukraine can be corrupt as fck.. while Ireland also having its own corruption. They don't cancel each other out. And if you look at any nation on this earth, you will find varying degrees of corruption.

    This attack posts go from those, through to "they're scroungers", "they're all economic migrants" and all the way up to "they're leeches."

    The poster who called them leeches was banned. That's the extreme end of the scale. As for being scroungers and economic migrants, there is some validity to the claims as they were economic migrants before the war. They have the worst economy in Europe, which says a lot considering the amount of resources their country has on tap, and Ukrainians did go elsewhere seeking to emigrate for a better standard of living. I see no problem with that. Nor do I see any negatives in calling them economic migrants.

    As for scroungers, that's the bitterness/frustration over government policy, and the feeling that the government cares more about foreigners than the native population. And considering the statistics on those working (which you provided) vs those on welfare, there are ground for considering them to be scroungers, due to the many reports of Ukrainian refugees being ungrateful for what they've received, and expecting more. Now, personally, I don't see them as scroungers, but I can appreciate the sentiment of those who do.

    I absolutely get people's anger with the government. This is not that.

    No, you just don't want it to be about that. Better to dismiss the criticisms as being about the refugees. While I haven't posted that much to the thread, I've read it all... and I've seen the manner of your posts. You seek to shut down everything.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The piece is from CNN which based it's story on satellite surveillance from a private company.

    According to CNN, new satellite images from Maxar Technologies counter claims by Russian President Vladimir Putin that the Ukrainian military was conducting repeated military strikes at the plant.

    Again if you actually read the article instead of jumping with both feet into trying to discredit the outlet that re posted it, you'd know that.

    Anyways seeing as Satellite images can prove no shelling occurring at the plant, that means the risk of nuclear incident at the plant is even lower than previously feared

    Yep exhausted workers being held at a barrel of gun is super reassuring alright. There is also claims of torture. 👍️



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And we are all aware of how willing Zelensky is to make any incident into a piece of propaganda.. the use of armed civilians blurs the "rules of engagement". So after a fight, remove the weapons from the dead, and so, civilians have died as a result of the evil Russians. Anyone who believes that Zelensky wouldn't avail of such tactics, is completely ignoring how Zelensky behaved in the lead up to the war, trying to play Russia against the Western powers for his own advantage.

    Which is not any kind of defence of Putin/Russia.. before Boggles or others try to make it out to be. It's about recognising that Ukraine was pretty dodgy before the war, and they haven't become saints just because Russia attacked them, no matter how much some people would like to pretend them to be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    That’s autocorrect changing the word.

    Questionable if these are classified as civilian locations if the military are using them, questionable if it’s intentional, they become military targets for the enemy. It doesn’t mean all are or are not. The report criticises using civilian locations as it increases casualties.

    With the lower numbers it is understandable, a traditional war would not favour Ukraine. There are no absolutes here, war is messy. No one comes out clean.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How did you arrive at the figure of €4160? Two couples receive approximately €350 per couple per week. That comes in at approximately €2,890 a month.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,039 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The article was written by "The New Voice of Ukraine" - they quoted CNN who quoted Maxar Technologies, but the author of the piece is the New Voice of Ukraine. Its right there in the link you sent, and despite your glib remarks about "if I actually read the article", you yourself clearly havent.


    Look I even highlighted it for you, the author publication's name listed just above the headline.

    Yep exhausted workers being held at a barrel of gun is super reassuring alright. There is also claims of torture. 👍️

    Is this the same as the claims of Russia shelling the plant? Because clearly that is false according to the article you just sent. Doesnt bode well for Ukrainian credibility surrounding the ZNPP plant does it?

    And again, none of this looks to pose a massive risk to Ukrainians in the central and West of the country. No shelling of the plant means little chance of radiation leaks which could affect the relatively safe west of the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Once more.

    It also means that it’s questionable whether Russia was targeting civilian locations or there was a military presence there

    Your claim is Russia are only targeting civilian locations if there was military presence.

    That is your claim and your claim alone, apart from the Kremlin obviously.

    So you are standing by that claim?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Questionable if it’s intentionally targeting civilians in the every case or targeting the military posted there, questionable if there were military targets there at all too. Everything is questionable. The link I posted shows that charities have raised questions about the placement of the military in civilian locations. You didn’t believe it first then when I post the link to the story in the Guardian you criticised the charity. If nothing will change your mind just say so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,039 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Ironic you mention deflection, when you yourself are the one ignoring all my other points in favour of this semantic argument.

    In case you forgot:

    Yep exhausted workers being held at a barrel of gun is super reassuring alright. There is also claims of torture. 👍️

    Is this the same as the claims of Russia shelling the plant? Because clearly that is false according to the article you just sent. Doesnt bode well for Ukrainian credibility surrounding the ZNPP plant does it?

    And again, none of this looks to pose a massive risk to Ukrainians in the central and West of the country. No shelling of the plant means little chance of radiation leaks which could affect the relatively safe west of the country. So we shouldnt still be taking in Ukrainians from those safer regions of the country, no?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


This discussion has been closed.
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