PV Feed In Tariff

mun1 · 23-08-2022 5:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511543#Comment_119511543

Just noticed it quotes MEC(max export capacity) on calculator example so 5kw inverter would be MEC , happy days :)

allinthehead · 23-08-2022 5:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511545#Comment_119511545

Understood. I already have a smart meter but I haven't changed to a smart plan yet.

KCross · 23-08-2022 5:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511543#Comment_119511543

In that case, if you are on deemed export you will get paid for

5 x 0.097 x 0.35 x 8760=1487kWh

From what I see so far we have confirmed FiT values from Energia and Bord Gais at 18/19c per kWh so ~€275 for you and Electric Ireland and Airtricity at about 14c so you would get €208 from them.

KCross · 23-08-2022 6:18pm

I think its fair to say that the FiT rates are much much better than any of us thought they would be.

Confirmed FiT rates, which are due to be paid before the end of the year and backdated to Feb 2022: -

Energia - 18c

SSE - 14c

Bord Gais - 18.5c

Electric Ireland - 14c

FloGas - 20c

The question now is, are there any sneaky T&C's attached to any of those rates.... things like, you have to be on a particular tariff.

DrPhilG · 23-08-2022 6:26pm

Thickos at SSE have a different version of what's happening every 5 minutes.

I changed from a 5kW to 6kW inverter in July but I'm wary of informing them lest SSE then mark down the date of the change as the date of the NC6 and only pay from then.

jkforde · 23-08-2022 9:35pm

anyone with Energia heard anything about when they're due to start opening their purses? I was talking to a member of their retention team yesterday and he didn't know.

btw, he said the EV plan rates are fixed for 12mths (Night 0.079, Day 27.54?) - hmm, I wonder do they think the wholesale prices are going to decrease in the 12mths (mind reading that looper in Moscow perhaps!)

graememk · 23-08-2022 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512645#Comment_119512645

The EV tariff has always been fixed. Been some arguments with people saying it's not... But so far nobody that has been on has been hit by price rises...

Niceday20 · 23-08-2022 9:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512645#Comment_119512645

At the beginning of August i.e. pre the FIT announcement, Energia's comment to me was:

At present we are currently still working on a tariff to complement the CEG.

I am aware that there are currently two providers who have announced the payback amount already and we hope to follow suit very shortly.

We are working within the guidelines set by the Government and the CRU to bring this tariff to our customers.

We will be backdating payments to the 15th of February 2022 to all customers who have met the eligibility criteria at this time, which you will have met by having the NC6 form completed.

We are hoping to have these backdated payments started by mid-September.

You will not have to do anything to avail of this as this will automatically be to your bill.

Zzippy · 23-08-2022 10:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511545#Comment_119511545

The question was about smart plans/tariffs though. Going to a smart meter does not mean you have to accept a smart tariff.

yankinlk · 24-08-2022 6:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511269#Comment_119511269

Did you get an email from EI out of the blue... or did you initiate with a query?

I have no email yet, but on DN meter, switched to them in Feb.

curioustony · 24-08-2022 6:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119513590#Comment_119513590

I have an open complaint with them. They called last week and I refused to close it without some official communication.

Other that that it was out of the blue. There was a second post quitting the email text, after mine with slightly different text, so I don't think I'm alone...

yankinlk · 24-08-2022 7:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119513601#Comment_119513601

Waiting on EI in my sincere Pumpkin patch for word on my FIT. Won't hold my breath, but if I did get a credit in Dec it might influence my staying a little longer before switching. Don't want to switch if I'm in credit...

curioustony · 24-08-2022 7:38am

@yankinlk I fully subscribe to that. Others here have moved with credit and had little or no difficulty with refunds. Still I will wait for the dust to settle. For sure there are better plans for me now.

Patmwgs · 24-08-2022 7:39am

Thank you for your participation in the Electric Ireland Microgen pilot scheme. As the pilot scheme is ending you’ll automatically become part of the nationwide microgeneration support scheme. Below are some of the important details about how and when you will be paid for your excess electricity.

If you already have a smart meter there is nothing for you to do. If you don’t have a smart meter ESB Networks are already planning to install one for you, so there is no need to take any action at this time.

When will I start earning?

Your first payment will be applied in the form of a credit on your bill by the end of 2022. After your first payment you will receive a microgen credit on each bill, reflecting the amount of electricity you exported in that period.

What rate will I be paid?

Electric Ireland are pleased to offer a rate of 14c per kWh. If you received a payment as part of the pilot since February, you will receive the balance for the new rate.

Similar to above, i have been with them for years because theyvwere the only supplier offering (fits)

Patmwgs · 24-08-2022 7:46am

Flogas offering 20 cent, highest in the market.

E30M3 · 24-08-2022 9:21am

Has anyone received confirmation from any supplier that FIT will be paid from 15th February on a Deemed Export basis in cases where a SMART Meter is suitable but has not been fitted at that point?

Electric Ireland stating that no supplier will pay from a point prior to installation in these cases.

Citizen Six · 24-08-2022 11:27am

They told me the same thing. Payment from when smart meter is installed, or 15th Feb, which ever is latest. But had my smart meter installed this morning.

KCross · 24-08-2022 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119513654#Comment_119513654

One of the highest in the market for import rates too though... rural d/n tariff with 40% discount is 34.57/16.82c. Those are eyewatering rates, so a FiT of 20c is easy to provide then.

I'd prefer the likes of BordGais at 18.5c FiT and d/n rates of 21.75/10.75

Or Energia 18c FiT and d/n rates of 27.43/7.90

slave1 · 24-08-2022 12:54pm

Or Energia 18c FiT and d/n rates of 27.43/7.90

That's food for thought alright, just not happy to switch to a Smart Meter is all, want to avoid that as long as possible

the_amazing_raisin · 24-08-2022 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514848#Comment_119514848

Well if you've a big enough battery that you can almost any import during the expensive hours then smart meter makes sense

27.43c/kWh daytime import makes a battery look a lot more affordable IMO

mag · 24-08-2022 5:33pm

is the Bord Gais EV deal also available with their FIT or has that been clarified yet?

Alkers · 25-08-2022 12:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516113#Comment_119516113

But the battery will only ever save you the difference between the day rate and the fit, so what 7-10c per kWh. Even on a 10kWh battery that's only a euro a day and it probably.cost 5k to purchase neverind the hybrid inverter

loyatemu · 25-08-2022 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518349#Comment_119518349

isn't the idea to fill the battery during the cheap night rates, and use the battery during the peak hours - you'd be saving up to 20c a unit that way even if you didn't have any PV.

yankinlk · 25-08-2022 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519887#Comment_119519887

Exactly. Battery has 2 uses. A 5kw full battery gives 2.5kwh of power to the house... and does not drop when a cloud passes over. More battery gives more fill-in power to the base load... sunshine and battery together will run multiple high power devices at same time

It needs careful consideration... if you don't use that stand-by battery power it's a bad investment. And don't build a battery bigger than the house daily load requirements.

Reminds me of the sales guy that told me I could save 2k a year with his new system... I said but I only spend 1.5k a year ...

the_amazing_raisin · 25-08-2022 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519887#Comment_119519887

Ideally you fill the battery using free Solar PV and self consume as much as possible, and shift any import to cheap night rates

Now with night rates being a lot lower than the export tariff there's an argument that you can export everything and just use the night rate to charge your battery. I'm not sure how best to resolve the numbers on that but it probably only works if you've a big battery, which adds to the system cost

IMO you need to find a balance where the battery is big enough to allow you to get you through the day without importing too much daytime electricity, but small enough that it isn't unaffordable or never gets filled from Solar (unless you're looking for backup power or off grid, which is a whole different ballpark)

OfTheMarsWongs · 25-08-2022 4:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511509#Comment_119511509

I have a smart meter about a year and haven't switched plans. Still on the basic 24hr rate. Got the FiT email and no mention of having to change plans to receive the FiT.

KCross · 25-08-2022 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519887#Comment_119519887

Lets take a typical example: You decide to push some of your free Solar to a 5kWh battery instead of sending it to FiT

BordGais: 18.5c FiT and d/n rates of 21.75/10.75

Fill it for free from the sun. On the way back out there will be some losses. Lets say, 10% so you'll get 4.5kWh back out. That saves you 98c(4.5x21.75) for the day. We lost some free FiT on the way in too as it will take more than 5kWh to charge it up, but lets ignore that for simplicity.

If you decided to let it go to FiT you will get all 5kWh paid for, so you will get paid 93c(18.5*5).

So, almost the same net gain from that perspective.

However, what is always forgotten with the battery systems is that you have an upfront capital cost for the battery and the more expensive hybrid inverter and the extra labour for the install. The battery has a finite life in terms of cycles and that 98c you saved yourself above is another nail in the coffin on your battery as it degrades over time and will need replacing. The 5c extra per unit wont cover it!

The 93c you got from FiT was free money. No battery, no maintenance... just let it off to the grid and get paid.

Environmentally it was also much better as there was no battery mining, manufacturing etc and the power is used at source.

On the other example: Charge battery at night to save money by day

Again, lets say, a 5kWh battery at night at 10.75c/kWh. Allowing for 10% losses it will cost you 59c to charge it.

On the way back out it will save you 21.75c/kWh during the day but there are losses on the way out too... lets say another 10%, so you get 4.5kWh out of it (assuming you have a perfectly healthy battery) thus saving you 98c.... but it cost you 59c to charge it so it has really only saved you 39c for the day, which is less than 2 units of electricity. Not much of a saving really.

If you did that for, say, 150 days of the year you would be using up valuable cycles of your battery. I think Pylontech's are rated for 6000 cycles so after 10 years you've used 25% of it to save yourself €585 (150*0.39*10).

You have to make up your own mind whether 39c/day is good value for degrading your battery and using up 25% of its lifespan.

I made my mind up a few years ago that batteries were really bad value for money and that was with the grant, even worse value when they removed the grant and is even worse again with FiT payments now imminent.

bullit_dodger · 25-08-2022 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119522527#Comment_119522527

Some good viewpoints Kcross - but somewhat dependent on the rates you have as well as the system and consumption you have in play. Not so sure it's a "one size fits all argument". I'm with SSE and it's €0.14 FIT, €0.17 night €0.31 day. I've a GivEnergy battery, so unlimited cycles for 10 years where they guarantee 100% of your capacity after 10 years.

GivEnergy

They are able to do that as when you buy an 8.2Kwhr battery, it's actually 9.8Kwhr or something under the hood, so while it will deteriorate, it's deteriorating on the stuff "behind the curtain" so to speak.

With the FIT being lower than the night rate for me, and the battery cycles a non-issue, the math isn't quite as favorable. Yes, there's an argument to move to say Bordgais then and adopt your strategy, but if I'm honest......I never could be arsed with all the supplier hopping. It's just not me.

Also, and I guess for many out there.....the battery is a "sunk cost" at this stage. I got mine when there was a grant and it was a little clearer as to the strategy. With FIT and no grant that makes it harder to know , but I think a small'ish -> medium battery is probably a good move. I'd like to be able to stay clear of those "peak" tarrifs which are coming at some stage.

DIY battery of course is the ultimate winner if you have the inclination

yankinlk · 25-08-2022 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119522527#Comment_119522527

I like the effort you put in here - but something just doesnt feel right to me. your math assumes only 2 secnarios... you charge it once a day and u drain it once a day. \i regularly see results that show my battery both charged AND drained and then did it again - especially when there is lots of sun and lots of consumption... so a little harder to calculate the amount saved per day IMHO.

Also - you have used very conservative values for Day rates... mine are already trending higher than that - and prices will certainly NOT stay at that level for 10 years!

I am curious tho - have you solar installed WITHOUT batteries? Have you it running for a year? Could you share your real world data in that case? ie how much did u generate / what did you consume / self-use rate etc. Also if ANYONE else has done similar... i like data rather than theory.

Gerry · 25-08-2022 10:59pm

A good ol spreadsheet that you could plug different rates into would take away some of the uncertainty here.

But it looks to me like a lot of people with batteries who want to justify the investment and a lot without, who are really struggling to.

PV Feed In Tariff

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