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Texas School shooting 19 children and 2 adults murdered

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  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭giftfromthegods




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Rittenhouse might have been foolish to go to Kenosha that night but I'd argue that he handled himself very well when he was under attack. He only shot in self defence and only shot those actively attacking him. Rittenhouse was actively trying to avoid shooting people as he was retreating at the time of all three shootings. Someone with formal training would have done well to do similar while under attack.

    I don't know what your point is about if you have a gun on you, you have to be willing to use it. I guess you approve of Rittenhouse's actions so because he did have a gun on him and he showed he was willing to use it.

    I personally think he made a mistake going to Kenosha that night but making that kind of mistake is no indication if someone is not too bright. Maybe he felt it was his civic duty to go and help the people of Kenosha protect their businesses as the cops had called for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Yep, it's not a certainty but very little in life is.

    Your point about brandishing his weapon being illegal in many states is irrelevant. It's legal in Wisconsin.

    Anyway, we won't agree and, as you say, this thread is about Uvalde so I'm going to drop it here.

    Have a nice day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Im saying that rioters are not always young men with criminal records that can be painted as being violent and deserving of death. If he had killed a woman or child he would be judged more harshly, even if they were looters. At least we are in agreement that it was a stupid move to go to Kenosha during a riot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭giftfromthegods


    But that is a ridiculous hypocritical.

    He had been providing first aid to rioters in need of help.

    The only time he acted violently was in self defense towards people actively attacking him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I dont think you understand the meaning of the word hypocritical. It is admirable if he was providing first aid to rioters but if he was willing to put himself between rioters and businesses and he was armed he was putting himself in a situation where he might have a shoot and kill a looter, and the looter may not be a convicted criminal but a woman or child.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭giftfromthegods


    It's an autocorrect. I think in context it's obvious I meant hypothetical.

    And no. He didn't put himself in a position where he might have to shoot and kill a looter.

    He put himself in a position where he may be in danger of being violently attacked for trying to prevent looters and rioters. Which he was.

    He was attacked. And thankfully he was able to defend himself.

    The way you framed it was as if he may need to shoot a woman or a child because he was there to shoot "protesters" regardless of what they were doing.

    I don't see any reason to believe that he was acting in anything other than self defense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Ah autocorrect is a b#tch. I agree he was attacked and shot in self defense. I was being hypothetical but only to point out stupid a decision it is to bring a gun to a riot as he could have been forced to shoot a looter in fear of his life if they rushed the store he was proetecting and he may kill someone who is more sympathetic in the eyes of the public. Like why put yourself in that situation to protect someone elses property, to have someone elses blood on your hands.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭giftfromthegods


    I get you. But I disagree.

    Kyle Rittenhouse did nothing wrong.

    Would I want my child to put himself in danger to protect a neighborhood housing people I cared about? No.

    Would I want a person I cared about to put themselves in danger to protect a neighborhood housing people I cared about? No

    Would I put myself in danger to protect a neighborhood housing people I cared about? I'd like to say yes, but I probably wouldn't.

    Would I want anyone I cared about to have a weapon and use it lawfully to protect themselves while protecting a neighborhood? Yes.

    Would I hope and pray that someone else would protect the neighborhood? Yes. A million times yes.

    If he hadn't brought a gun to the riot he wouldn't have been able to defend himself as efficiently and as strongly as was required.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭giftfromthegods


    But uvalde is the topic in hand; a tragedy, senseless and horrific.

    It's actually distasteful that proper and justified use of a firearm (like the Rittenhouse case) is evoked in a discussion about something as awful as this



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    If you want to be in a position to use lethal force to protect people and property become a LEO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Only if you cant see how the availability weapons and commonality of owning and brandishing ones relates the two cases.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭giftfromthegods


    The availability of the weapons is an issue. One I am torn on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭giftfromthegods


    He wanted to be in a position to use lethal force to protect himself. Which he did. Which he was entitled to do.

    He also was medically assisting people who were potential threats.

    The attempts from some to frame him as a blood thirsty idiot is very transparent.

    It's absolutely not the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The lawsuit against Daniel Defense isn't related to the availability of guns, nor the functionality of them. It's aimed towards the marketing of their firearms. Actually it's hard to know exactly what the plaintiffs are claiming because it looks like the Pope and the GAA are the only ones left out of the lawsuit.

    I would apportion some of the blame to Daniel Defense if their adverts showed people going into schools and killing loads of people or if they claimed that their gun was "the best for school shootings" but that's not what happened.

    I'm actually torn on the availability of firearms over there too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I am on the side of there not being a firefight in my general location. Not on the looters side since in that incidence they are also putting my life at risk. However I would prefer no one escalate the situation. I mean I get it defending someone's life, I can't rate my life above someone else's in their eyes. I will absolutely hold any risk to my life over any piece of property.

    Yes the US has a massive massive massive problem with guns without any more being sold. Not sure selling more will fix the issue though.


    Not sure on the gun nut thing. Less about the amount of guns and more about the attitude of them. Your focus is definitely more about the use of guns as opposed to hard actions to not only stop school shooters but also stop the attempts. Honestly I don't think it was just removing the guns that helped other countries as much as the steadfast attitude of never again that happened in the UK/Aus/NZ. I doubt every restriction was needed but they knew as a society they needed to stop shootings at source. The US is far more worried about "oh is this particular restriction needed or can we talk about something else" as opposed to worrying about the kids first.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Catching up a bit. I'm on a layover in Sydney Airport after flights to Houston and Los Angeles. Long trip.

    To address the matter of 'unnecessary escalation', it is a matter of what you consider "necessary" on the basis of "who bears the burden".

    Any sort of unlawful act, even against property, is an escalation. If the victim of the act is innocently minding his own business, then he is going to bear the inconvenient results of the action. Be it his store out of service for a week or two or his body healing bruises. One school of thought is "at least nobody was shot", and the disruption to innocent individuals is considered the necessary cost of nobody getting shot.

    The other school of thought is that nobody must be mandated to "take it on the chin and be the better man". If it is within that person's capability to deny damage to himself (physical, property, way of life), he should be entitled to protect his own interests. The situation may have escalated for the person getting shot/shot at, but the situation for the citizen may have never escalated at all. A private citizen not being permitted to protect himself, his neighbors or any other victims can be seen as innocents being forced to suffer because of the violence of others.

    The debate isn't "escalation should be avoided" its "which escalation is acceptable".

    The bottom line for the American theory is that there is no obligation for a private citizen to sit back and let things happen to him at all. Others from Europe may disagree as to how much should be permitted to happen to a citizen before they may act in their own interests.

    Comparisons between the actions and obligations of private citizens and police are not particularly valid because of the differences in circumstance and intent. Private citizens are generally not expected or encouraged to actively go looking to engage troublemakers. If trouble comes to them, then their moral obligation is simply to survive, and end the threat to them or who/ whatever they are responsible for. Leave them and theirs alone, they will leave you alone. A much simpler goal than for police. Police, however, are expected to actively pursue malfeasants, even after the objectionable actions have ceased. They are trained and equipped to do so. It is unreasonable to hold private citizens to the same standards as police in their encounters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Irrlanvat I watch that guy but should go nowhere near this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Good for him not bothering watching. Are you implying justice was not served ? I wager you would agree with the verdict in the Derek Chauvin case I did after the verdict.




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If you're not going to bother watching you have some cheek asking me to TLDR it for you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Are you saying justice was not served simple question. We can put up any videos we like. The guy give opinions on the law. I love the my cousin vinny video.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You're saying you're not watching it so I won't stop you from making assumptions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    David McAtee was just defending his business too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Then why post videos about a person who was exonerated by their peers ? Makes no sense. IIRC the guy practices in District of Columbia. So his opinion on other states is just that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Because it was relevant to the thread because Rittenhouse was relevant to the thread. It makes sense if you bother to watch it. I'm not holding a gun to your head.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I'm not watching them as it's classic deflection. I care nothing about what he has to say on the matter. KR was found not guilty end of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    How do you know that's not what he surmises if you don't deign to watch it?

    You don't even know what the conclusions are, yet you've already decided it is deflection. lol



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Because I don't need to. I know you know he knows KR was found not guilty. I don't need to watch a video stating that if that is the case.



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