Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

The "Irish Times" and the case of missing domestic investigative journalism

  • 22-08-2022 1:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭


    Examiner and other outlets break domestic stories frequently. Pretty sure I could find examples from the Indo too. To reinforce the reputation of our 'newspaper of record':

    What are examples in last 10 years where the IT broke a domestic current affairs story of significant public interest? (That means: not investigations into another outlets initial story, no analysis of human rights breaches in foreign war-zones, no historical retrospectives where there's no accountability, no international syndication "collaborations" (Panama, Uber), no tackling of issues that only impact a tiny % of the population.)

    Is it that we should not ever expect the IT to uncover a story like the (alleged) going's on's at ABP?



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Don Henley described it best.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,501 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Journalism in general is going down the toilet.

    There's many reasons but really the basics are that people don't want to pay for it, people don't have the attention span for it and honestly I think that people would rather a juicy take on an event instead of a factual, well researched account.

    That's pretty much where mainstream journalism is heading right now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Don’t like it, don’t read it 👍

    Should we only read the media that you say is ok?

    It would seem a certain section on online supporters want to question and try shut down media they deem not friendly to the party they support

    It really is a worrying time for people in Ireland, we are seeing a clear targeted campaign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,599 ✭✭✭plodder


    True to some degree, but I think there are more fundamental changes happening. Like I suspect fewer people buy one newspaper (in print or online) and read it from cover to cover. The internet allows people to read many different publications from around the world every day. Until recently, I had two online newspaper subscriptions and neither of them were Irish. Recently, I got a premium subscription to the Indo because it was good value and easy to cancel. The IT is just a bit pricey when it’s only one out of three or four news outlets I’m going to read every day.

    Having said that I still buy a print copy a couple of times a week and that would cover the cost of the most basic online subscription. So, there's more to it than just bottom-line cost. Their online marketing is just too unsophisticated compared to say the NY Times. I'd say not many people are enticed by a "one month for €1" offer, but I was sucked into the NY Times by one year at €8 per quarter, which then slid into €8 per month, which is still cheaper than the IT, but more than I would have paid for the NYT a year ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,501 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    I suspect few people under 40 buy one newspaper,let alone read it cover to cover.

    I think newspapers are going the way of museums. People who are interested in detailed analysis are getting it online through specific websites and channels. So newspapers have to dilute their content to cater for the casually interested.

    Journalists have adopted a style thats less factual and more opinion based and (my biggest gripe) are getting these opinions from whoever is trending on twitter.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    To be honest a lot of the article shared here and on the web the people sharing don't even bother to read. Some papers are famous for it, write a juicy headline, the person see it and makes up their own mind what is in the article, shares it to find out what is in the article had very little to do with the headline!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Other papers manage to break some domestic stories holding the people in power to account. The IT doesn't appear to do so. Right now the IT are aggressively pretending not to notice that so many people have noticed this. Perhaps one day they'll remember their charter.

    I noticed the Editor announced his retirement today. As a retiring hardboiled newsman, surely his outgoing reflections will focus on the public service stories that the IT championed during his tenure (e.g. housing, health) and not on social issues affecting only tiny % of the population. Let's see ;-)   



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,674 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I wonder if they are planning to drop the physical paper version anytime soon?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    I noticed the Editor announced his retirement today. 

    When does his new position in FG get offered to him? Any day now, surely?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Investigative journalism is expensive. Lifestyle and opinion journalism is cheap and doesn't require skilled journalists. With investigative journalism, it can take weeks or months to develop a story and then it might end up getting spiked. The IT is really a provincial Irish newspaper playing at being a national newspaper. Its glory days, as with much many of the other dailes are long gone and many of those readers now get their news from TV, radio or the Web. The IT may get the odd scoop but the newspaper business has changed and the attention spans of people have also become shorter. About ten years ago, the IT was selling about 100K copies a day. Before Covid, it was down to around 50K.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Unless its a woke feels investigation no one seems to want to go near in the bigger outlets. Climate change, LGBT rights and alike have replaced investigative journalism. Now it's ever increasing copy paste Opinion pieces. I mean my spelling can be bad. But have seen stuff printed online that never went near an editor. Do they even have them anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc


    I thnk that a few years ago when some of the larger newspapers were trying to save money, the sub-editors were let go. The problem with publications going Woke is that they frequently end up broke.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    The problem with publications going Woke is that they frequently end up broke.

    Like The Guardian begging for donations every time you visits it's site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The Gruaniad does some good investigative journalism. Ignore the Woke stuff and it is a good newspaper.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    The other papers appear to allocate some resources for investigations but the IT is not even bothering to pretend! The only area where they're resourceful and energetic is in demonising that section of society that dares to disagree with any of the FFG sponsored consensus. (Not unexpectedly the "talent" they are attracting is mirroring more and more closely that at the BBC i.e. strange people.) We can look forward to a merry dance when SF come into power ;-)

    Truly a sign of the times that nobody here has even attempted to mount a defence for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,674 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If you think the Times has done anything other than import the UK culture war against trans people in recent years, I really don't know what to tell you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc



    The IT went down the rabbit hole of "opinion" in the 1990s. It was cheaper than real news and journalism. It became more of a viewspaper than a newspaper. As for the technology section back then, it had some good journos initially but really declined after those journos moved away from covering technology. The cheerleading for the DotCom bubble was only ever going to end one way. As for the property bubble, the IT became a bunch of property ads separated by some news and opinion pieces. The IT did some good investigative journalism in the past. The problem is that the Irish situation is incredibly hostile to good investigative journalism and the first reaction of the subjects is generally the threat of defamation proceedings. It still has some good journalists but Irish journalism isn't quite like journalism in other countries. The decline in the print newspaper model has made newspapers incredibly dependent on advertising and one of the biggest advertisers in recent years was the government. The last thing that newspapers want to do is to piss off their largest advertisers. Some of the smaller publications like The Village Magazine and On The Ditch have put the larger publications to shame in the way that they have broken major stories in recent years.

    Regards...jmcc

    Post edited by jmcc on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,581 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They own the Examiner. There's deliberate differentiation between them. They have never been an investigative paper



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    The Guardian is depressing to read. Really, it's awful what's happening in the world. They've got the balls to cover it. It's fantastic journalism at times. Wide and deep. Often it goes so woke you'd puke. It's all free, so they're not making any money there. Really I'm a bollox for not paying for a subscription.

    Not sure any Irish Journalism exists anymore. It's all property porn and lifestyle stuff that's been scraped off the Web. RTE should be doing more since they have a ton of money from license payers and advertising revenue. But we mostly get property porn and lifestyle stuff from them too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc



    There was a world of difference between the way that the Guardian covered the Snowden revelations about NSA/GCHQ spying on communications and the way that the IT covered it. At least the IT had the sense to get Bruce Schneier to write an article about it. It was a very complex topic and the IT's journalists were not capable of dealing with it. The Guardian also did some very good reporting on the Cambridge Analytica story.

    The problem, when it comes to tech reporting, is that most of the people in non-specialist Irish journalism who cover it don't have any in-depth background in Technology or the business of Technology. When stories pop up that require expertise, they just can't accurately cover them. As was seen with the Abu/SF database story, technology -- even simple technology -- baffles non-technology people. Apart from all that, the Guardian has a large circulation. The IT, and most of the Irish newspapers don't. They are aimed at a much smaller market. Their focus is actually extremely local.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    As times gone by those viewpoints, especially the syndicated ones, have become more dogmatic and creepier. Those FF defamation laws from over a decade ago are a disgrace, I thought FG had promised to amend them by now ;-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Depressing. I'd just presumed that further back in time the IT had done more to hold power to account. A newspaper without any investigative teeth is nothing more than a means of oppression.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 maceoin.D.


    They did a great report on how 10 billion euro found its way out of the Irish economy back in 2020, due to the lack of cyber-security and protocol.


    They have also done some investigative stuff surrounding the Covid 'bonuses' that the GP's were getting for every triage back when the pandemic was in full swing.


    They also had some figures on how much the cyber attacks from 2021 were costing the country, that I have not seen reported anywhere else.


    To be honest, I think they're fairly good at following the money in domestically dubious stories.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Thanks for those. My worry is that there were zero repercussions from those stories though i.e. nobody being made accountable for issues where you or I would be fired immediately. 

    The cybersecurity pieces smack of IT preparing the ground for forthcoming govmt announcements - think the Defence Forces were recently talking about budget allocation for establishing a cybersecurity unit. (And that fantastical charade performed by our politicians/media/pwc about the miraculous appearance of the Russian decrypt key, well... ;-) 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,674 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Did Schneier write an article for the IT? Or did the IT pick up an article that Schneier had written?

    Karlin Lillington did lots of good articles on data protection matters over the years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 maceoin.D.


    Yeah that is always the worry. I feel as though the whole 'zero accountability for anybody who works for the state' thing, has reached a point where something will give and things will change. You can only afford to abuse power for so long before you are weakened and become vulnerable. That's the way things are going in politics- and if that weren't enough, a general rule of thumb is if the politicians are letting go of money, you know something is gone wrong!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc


    I think that the IT asked Schneier to write it. Even if it was syndicated, it was well above the usual quality of the section.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    The IT has some great journalists and as a fellow hack I would trust the IT way over the Indo. The IT may have slightly lost its way but it still has great journalists such as Karlin Lillington, Fintan O'Toole, Ronan McGreevy and Ciara O'Brien.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Thanks for chipping in here, especially as a hack.

    To us outsiders, we are suspicious of the IT as it rarely/never challenges authority. On top of that, it patronises the public whenever they are hesitant to believe what they are being told. (The international syndications are also quite dubious.) Do you think those higher quality journos at the IT would recognise this sentiment?

    OT: where do you think the IT fit into an Ireland where SF are in power?

    Thanks again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    The IT has some good journalists and some bad ones too but not as bad as the Indo which wears its bias on its sleeve. The IT does not challenge authority enough but when it does it does a great job. Karlin Lillington and Fintan O'Toole are good at that. It is also worth noting that the IT were involved in breaking the Panama Papers. Some of the international syndications are not great but you will find that in all walks of life.

    I think the IT will have to get used to an Ireland where SF is in power and they won't be alone but the Indo will find it harder as they are dyed in the wool blueshirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Wow, lots of people agreeing that MSM journalism "is going down the toilet". So how did we get here; perhaps:  

    - The media, with increasing regularity, arrogantly presenting to the Irish public a world view that we simply do not recognise

    - That same media then "patiently" re-educating us - aka aggressively reprimanding us for daring to disagree with the "facts" they've presented. 

    - The Govmt then ensuring that we know that this is our fault - and will definitely be our problem.

    Begging your forgiveness sir, did I mis-learn any of your lessons? ;-) 



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I do wonder about Irish times and it's editors,as many of its headlines/articles and pieces are at a contraction to its evidence it purports to support em


    Leaving ones personal view/politics aside of it,Micheal D,refusal to partake in centenary commerations for the north was editorialised to be presented as controversial/dividing public,while Irish times polls on subject showed something like 90% approval for his stance


    It sometimes comes across as an extravagant blog which if it's intentions is to challenge readers view,fair enough,but to simply misrepresent evidence in place of furthering an argument is simply dishonest and places it along side daily mail etc,except without the glamourous pics



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    "Be woke, go broke".

    I love it! But it suits the IT down to the ground;they can champion all the "right" causes (FG on bikes and the like) and ignore the real issues facing the average person in society - who, let's face it, won't read the IT anyway.

    For years, I used to buy it religiously every day - and then Madam Editor thought it would be amusing to buy syndicated neoliberal and neocon material from the US. I thought to myself "Well I for one an not going to pay for that crap." And in the last 15 years or so, I have bought the IT maybe once a year, perhaps twice in a really good year - an election year for instance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc


    It is a business problem. Many Woke people grew up when content was free on the Web so they are less likely to want to pay for it. There's also the problem of cafes with free newspapers. That means that they have more than one reader who will not buy a copy. Convincing people to pay for content that was previously free is difficut. The IT ran into that with its first paywall effort. It took all the content that people use to read and discuss on the Web and paywalled it. What was happening around the same time was the launch of Google Adsense advertising around 2003. These ads allowed publishers to monetise content and still leave most of it online for free. It completely changed the business model of online publishing. Eventually, the IT gave up on its first paywall and the figures were dreadful. I think that it got approximately 38K subscriptions for the period in which the paywall was active. I don't think that there was a breakdown on the subscriptions by length or type.

    A few years ago in the US, some publications such as the Huffington Post and Buzzfeed fired complete departments which had concentrated on Woke topics. This led to the "Learn to code" meme being used to troll these newly unemployed journalists. The basis for the meme was coalminers and others being told to retrain and learn to code. There was also that infamous Gillette razor ad that caused massive problems for its owners and an $8 billlion writedown for Gillette.

    The IT does have a few Woke types but they are very much in a minority. Its business still is ordinary journalism and commentary. There are really two ITs. The main one is the weekday IT which is aimed at the typical IT audience. The second is the Weekend/Saturday edition which is really a Sunday newspaper published on a Saturday. much of the Lifestyle stuff is included in the supplement. The two Weekday/Weekend editions thing isn't original. The Financial Times has been doing this weekday/weekend edition thing for decades. The problem for the IT is that the line between Lifestyle stuff and journalism became increasingly blurred. That led to bad decisions like the focus on property porn while the signals were evident that it was a highly abnormal market. Madam, from what I remember, was also an ex-PD TD but she also stood up for the right of journalists to protect their sources.

    Regards...jmcc

    Post edited by jmcc on


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,987 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I find it amusing that a newspaper that until relatively recently, was blatantly sectarian, advertising jobs for “conscientious Protestant men” etc. Who employed no Catholics until relatively recently. Has become Uber woke in tone. While retaining an almost exclusively white, middle class board, management and work force. Fintan O’ Toole et al.

    Do as we say not as we do.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Tomaldo


    The IT broke the Bishop Casey scandal but the editor Conor Brady basically said he didn't want to publish it. I know libel laws in Ireland are strict, but why, this was a massive scoop at the time. I think fear of rivals getting it reluctantly changed his mind plus they were able to "follow the money" to Annie Murphy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,674 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,695 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Had a quick read through here and whats left out is the influence PR companies have on media in general.

    The “fees” they pay to media outlets on behalf of their clients has become a vital income stream for many media and has led to a situation where in many cases they can have distinct influence over what gets published and have some sway over what doesn't.

    The government pay massive money to PR companies, probably the largest in the country by far who in turn pay to have certain stories reported, and you dont bite the hand that feeds you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭The Mighty Quinn


    I used to buy a newspaper maybe 4-5 days a week. That stopped about a decade ago so I guess I'm part of the problem.

    The decline in quality journalism is woefully apparent.

    The prevalence of LGBT reports and opinion pieces etc wears me down. Instead of helping the cause, it turns me off it. It's beyond saturation point. I hate the term but "woke" pieces are tedious and an irritant. I'm so tired of hearing about these things. Tired of columnists ramming home some pious views or crusade on issues that either don't exist for most in the real world or do exist but on such a minuscule scale it doesn't warrant the airtime it gets.

    Another depressing form of journalism is the pasting of a series of random tweets on a topic together and calling it news or a representative view of people when it's really not. The Journal is abysmal for this type of journalism. 20-something writers with no experience of a time when journalism was real quality who've copied and pasted pieces together and inserted a tweet or two and called it an article.

    I've often asked where I can find informed well written articles with an Irish viewpoint and never get a good answer.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    In reality the reason you stopped was because all of the content is more accessible online than trying to read a newspaper.

    I can't say I noticed an overly LGBT change in journalism but it was from nothing to something so it was an increase but nothing to suggest it was ruining other content

    Like I would have bought papers in years gone by for sport specifically. Now? I have podcast which I use to find a lot more in-depth information than a journalist can put in an article. These podcast are free but the best content is paid so I end up paying for the podcast.

    I was listening to a podcast recently and one of the stripe lads was on, they have bought into an audio books company. They say it is the future and in a few years nobody will read a book.

    So the days of buying a newspaper in the shop will be gone very very soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭The Mighty Quinn


    In reality the reason you stopped was because all of the content is more accessible online than trying to read a newspaper

    I don't disagree with this. You're right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Pre-Twitter, it was necessary for journalists to contact people and get the quotes directly. It involved meeting people, making phonecalls or e-mailing them. With Twitter or Facebook, the quotes are available for everyone to see and don't require much work apart from verification. There was no pre-Twitter golden age of Journalism because a lot of what may have appeared to have been direct quotes were actually lifted from press releases.

    A lot of what passes for journalism consists of recycled press releases. It is free content and easily adapted. Some press releases have quotes from key people and they tend to turn up verbatim as "told 'publication name'" when in reality it was just lifted from the press release. Other stuff from a press release is either used to pad out the article or slightly changed. It doesn't require much work. It is also extremely vulnerable to automation.

    The problem with with well informed and well written articles is that there is a requirement for the journalist to be well informed and to understand the subject. That requires specialisation. Many journalists don't have the time to specialise until they've been in the job for some time. The problem for younger journalists is that news organisations are already beginning to use Artificial Intelligence programs to summarise press releases and other reports. Some of these programs or the services using them are cheaper than employing full-time journalists.

    The reader comments on the IT articles used to be an interesting metric for the popularity of articles. The Web changed a lot of things for newspapers like the IT and it was possible for the publishers to see which articles were popular and which were not. This was completely different to the old print model where someone had to buy the entire newspaper to read one article. It has also caused serious problems for many newspapers because the digital subscription model is quite different to the print model. The majority of sales in the print model are one-off sales. The reader buys a copy of the newspaper. With Digital, the reader has to subscribe for a period (ideally a year). That's a big psychological change for most readers. Though some Irish newspapers claim that their Digital strategies are working, the information on the duration of these subscriptions is quite sparse. The problem for the IT is that its digital and print readership are different.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭Eclectic Econometrics


    The shoehorning of "wokeness" as a reason newspaper sales have fallen off a cliff is laughable. Sales of The Guardian and The Sun from 2003 to present day have both gone in the exact same downward trajectory. That'll be The Sun owned by Mr. Progressive Wokeness Rupert Murdoch.

    The impact of the internet on newspapers has been twofold, firstly it has decimated physical copy sales. Secondly, and back to the original point, it changed the priority of publishers to chase immediate clicks. The Daily Mail, a relative online success in this era, have banks of people who scour the internet for garbage stories they can rewrite into copy for their online rag, with divisiveness as a priority and a sprinkling of tits. The rise of inane cultural commentators churning out hot takes, again the more divisive the better, has been at the detriment of longform articles which were built upon months and sometimes years of investigation.

    The online trend was exacerbated by Facebook. People forget that advertising agencies lost their minds over this traffic. Go back and watch Super Bowl adverts from several years ago and instead of, for e.g., Coca-Cola using their .Com they promoted FB/Coca-Cola. This driving of traffic to Facebook was across the board. Newspapers chased this type of audience building too, then Facebook turned around and F***ed everyone by charging for access to the audiences that these brands built into a silo they didn't own. This should be a lesson to any business owner using third party platforms to promote, YouTube, Twitter etc.

    A lot of the longer investigations by people at NYT, FT etc. end up becoming books and then films/TV series. If you enjoy longer articles I recommend https://longreads.com/.

    Someone mentioned the IT tried a digital subscription model in 2003, sometimes the right idea is just too early. Here is some further reading from 2011 on the NYT and their execution of digital - https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/21/business/media/21times.html and here is an article from them written in 2022 where they've just purchased The Athletic, an interesting business launch in its own right in the context being discussed here, https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/02/business/media/nyt-earnings-q4-2021.html.

    Now Journalists have the option of going out on their own on platforms like Substack. In the future I expect there will be more investigations by people into organizations that are funded this way. So a mass of people annoyed by 'Bank X' will fund a Matt Taibbi type figure who is looking into that company for months/years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The PR companies recruit journalists and as such they would have good contact lists. PR companies tend to be good at what they do or they wouldn't last very long. They generally don't have to pay media outlets to run stories.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,674 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What media outlets are accepting fees from PR companies for publishing articles?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The IT is really just a provincial newspaper when compared to the New York Times. The NYT had a print circulation of about 1.1 million copies a day at the time that the IT launched its first paywall. The IT was approaching 100K a day. The NYT has a much larger market and its digital strategy has been a success. It has around 9.1 million subscribers. The ABC figures from 2019 for the IT showed that it had 24,389 digital subs in 2019. The NYT has a large market and the IT has a small market.

    https://www.abc.org.uk/Certificates/49619706.pdf

    The average daily print circulation was 54,147 but that was pre-Covid. The shift to a 24 hour news cycle really screwed the print news model of yesterday's news tomorrow. The Web effectively put print newspapers like the IT in direct competition with RTE and radio stations. It was the IT's bungled first paywall that effectively surrendered its dominance of the Irish online news market to RTE and the Indo. It was a classic Conditional Access problem of the type that Pay TV channels had to solve through the 1990s and early 2000s. (Let's just say that I have a very particular set of skills when it comes to CA.) The problem was that the IT didn't use people who understood it as a CA problem and treated it as a "Field Of Dreams" problem.

    Apart from the columnists and some investigative or specialist journalism, the IT has run into the problem of getting people to pay for original content when much of each edition is not completely original. (Newspapers use wire services (Reuters, AP etc) and syndicated content as well as generating their own content and news coverage.) The lower digital subscription prices are lower than buying a daily copy. A full subscription (premium) including print newspaper delivery is €767 a year. The lowest digital subscription is €156 a year. The ABC certifications do not break down the subscriptions by type or length. The print side of the business is declining but the digital side is not replacing it. While Digital does not have the costs associated with printing and distribution, it still has production costs.

    On the Substack issue, most journalists could not sustain a publication on their own. The ones that can are generally exceptionally good. The problem, as always, is getting people to pay.

    Regards...jmcc

    Post edited by jmcc on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭Eclectic Econometrics


    I agree with you on the market imitations of the IT, I was typing when you posted about recycled press releases which I also agree with. I do think that timing is important, however. I think consumers are transitioning from a content is free mindset to more of an appreciation that you are paying one way or the other, either ads pre-content, your data or subs. Once again, this is more a global view than strictly Ireland. Also, this isn't a journey which is nearly over but compared to 15 years ago I would say a good distance has been covered. The Huffington Post is really an example of the former era with The Athletic more a reflection of the current mindset.

    On the Substack stuff I think it comes down to niche and people carving out areas that are very focused on. Whether the majority of that is real, traditionally trained journalists or guys that write about stuff like finance, fashion and Warhammer etc. because that is their main interest is anyone's guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    One of the media organisations I works for charges for any stories involving a job promotion or announcement. I am not talking about about a company announcing new jobs but a company announcing Mr Joe Bloggs has become the Marketing Director of xyzzy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭jmcc


    It's advertorial. For big announcements, publications can squeeze some extra advertisng out them. The local newspapers are very good at it. Arguably, it is a kind of births, engagements and marriages section for businesses. The former journos in the PR companies know how to pitch stories and which journalists are likely to run them.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Advertisement
Advertisement