Robert Troy - Property Mogul

Madeoface · 25-08-2022 10:35am

The guy is a shyster no doubt but he could be a one man answer to the crisis. Taking an unhabitable house and turning it around in 3 months for coco to put in people off housing list. Kudos.

If the coco were responsible it'd probably be 3 years.

No issue with the profit motive here at all imo. Private landlords are needed as part of a solution. His hiding all his shenanigans and bending the truth is the issue and properly ousted.

kowloonkev · 25-08-2022 10:39am

I think it would be fine if it was all done on the private market. The fact that a local council bought it from him definitely raises a few eyebrows.

Sam Russell · 25-08-2022 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518945#Comment_119518945

As an elected politician, he bought a property on the cheap and sold it on at a profit, having refurbished it. Ordinarily that would be OK, if both transactions were all open market and above board.

However, he sold it to the local authority at a significant profit. That appears a bit lucky and should be open to investigation - but could be OK - but on top of the non-declaration of this particular transaction leaves it open to question.

As member of FF, he must be aware of the role landlords and rack rents played in Land League and the struggle for independence, and he would quite careful in his role as a landlord, particularly in the current housing emergency. Apparently not.

Azizur Rahman · 25-08-2022 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519231#Comment_119519231

That's why investigations take place to determine if criminal activity occurred. No basis? The price being doubled, quick resale, seller/buyer are politically exposed and failure to declare property interest as required on a simple form, together they in my view form a reasonable basis for a criminal investigation.

If nothing criminal occurred then it would be fairly easy for parties involved to show that.

ohnonotgmail · 25-08-2022 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519284#Comment_119519284

even if the purchase by the CoCo was done at mates rates it doesn't make it money laundering.

ohnonotgmail · 25-08-2022 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519294#Comment_119519294

nothing you have said suggests money laundering.

Azizur Rahman · 25-08-2022 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519306#Comment_119519306

I'm beginning to think you don't know what money laundering is.

mumo3 · 25-08-2022 10:51am

What pisses me off most about any of the "transgressions", is that they get to resign and keep the benefits!!! If you are an active member of the Dail or Seanad and you are found to be caught up in any questionable acts, well then your wage, pension and any other added benefits should be suspended until an investigation is carried out. But these people seem to get in there quick with a resignation and reap the rewards!!

ohnonotgmail · 25-08-2022 10:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519323#Comment_119519323

I've been convinced you don't know what it is from your first post. Nothing you posted since has changed my mind.

Sam Russell · 25-08-2022 10:55am

There is nothing to prevent him from making a substantial donation to a homeless charity as a way of saying sorry.

Azizur Rahman · 25-08-2022 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519336#Comment_119519336

Hard to change the mind of someone who doesn't understand what is being discussed.

We have legislation that deals with what can be considered money laundering and part of it covers under/over valuations.

GalwayMan74 · 25-08-2022 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519336#Comment_119519336

You clearly don't know what money laundering it 🤣

KaneToad · 25-08-2022 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494247#Comment_119494247

Calleary's transgression was very minor.

Cowen, on the other hand, was related to being economical with the truth relating to his drink driving.

It was compounded by the further 'revelation' that he had been driving illegally (unaccompanied & on motorways) for decades on a provisional licence. Cowen then disputed the garda version of events relating to him turning away from the checkpoint where he was caught being over the limit. Cowen states specifically that he was never charged with evading a checkpoint - which is factually correct but it does not necessarily mean he didn't turn away from a checkpoint. He would not face questions on the issue before the Daily on it, as he stated it would conflict with ongoing processes, which left his position untenable.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 25-08-2022 11:25am

The defending of this by MM and LV is not a good look. It wouldnt fly in the private sector.

I work for an investment company and as part of our T&Cs we are obliged to get preapproval for all personal trades. I recently put through a batch and missed one for a tiny residual trade of about 40 euro. I self-reported, and received a formal warning for my trouble. Correctly so, because governance should not be optional.

The fact that HAP tenancies do not need to be declared is a nonsense also; when the TD in question can vote or lobby on decisions that increase their own personal wealth everything should be declared.

kowloonkev · 25-08-2022 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519367#Comment_119519367

Okay I thought money laundering was using illegally obtained money and putting it into the income stream of a legitimate business to make it clean.

Am I wrong?

To me, from the information I have seen, this sounds like potentially a case of corruption, of profiting from tax payers money. I don't see where the dirty money is?

Azizur Rahman · 25-08-2022 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519565#Comment_119519565

Money laundering under Irish legislation is multi faceted. Money laundering is described as doing acts with the proceeds of criminal conduct, such as receiving, converting, disguising, transferring etc.

From the act itself "proceeds of criminal conduct” means any property that is derived from or obtained through criminal conduct, whether directly or indirectly, or in whole or in part, etc.

Criminal conduct is basically commiting a criminal offence. The proceeds of criminal conduct could come from corruption or bribery. I'm not saying that happened here but there is cause for questions re possible undervaluation and then selling on to local authority for a killing.

Its also not nesscary to prove what criminal conduct occurred. Section 11 of the act deals with that and when you can presume property is the proceeds of criminal conduct based on the circumstances of the situation.

Act in question is http://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/2010/act/6/revised/en/html#SEC7

Good loser · 25-08-2022 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518868#Comment_119518868

It's quite simple. With the development of the sub contract system it became much cheaper for the L A's to buy houses already built or in progress - than to build them.

Any State will/can only devote so much of its income to Welfare (in the broad sense); years ago the Social Welfare bill other than for house building was quite small so there was more money available for house building.

Sam Russell · 26-08-2022 8:12am

LA let go all the expertise for house building to save money. They let go the caretakers, for example, from the Ballymun flats which caused their terminal decline and ultimate demolition as the 'good' tenants moved out to be replaced by other less acceptable ones.

LA sold more houses than they built by a larger proportion as the years rolled by. They only started buying existing houses recently.

Good loser · 27-08-2022 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523413#Comment_119523413

Recently? They were certainly buying pre 2010.

I had an electrician here 2005/6/7; he worked on new estates as well. When the crash came 2007/8 I remember him telling me he was busy on houses in an estate - but only those the LA was buying, as all the other buyers had melted away.

That really was the time for the State to go counter cyclical. But all Joe Higgins et al could do was excoriate builders, bankers, developers, speculators and on and on and on.

JP Liz V1 · 27-08-2022 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519346#Comment_119519346

Meehole and Leo should too as they backed him

Furze99 · 27-08-2022 7:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519177#Comment_119519177

More detail needed though:

a) how did he pick up this house for €82.5K. Was it on the open market, who was it purchased from? Was it from one of the 'vulture funds' that bought up non paying mortgages and evicted people from their house, then flogged them on???

b) how on earth did he manage to then develop this property in I think 3 months and flip it on? I mean he has a full time job as a TD and we are frequently told how hard working they are?

Above all, Mr Troy is/was completely tone deaf in these matters, essentially sticking two fingers up to generation rent.

ohnonotgmail · 27-08-2022 8:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119530374#Comment_119530374

I'm not denying any of that. My issue is saying that it somehow justifies a criminal investigation

Sam Russell · 27-08-2022 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119530660#Comment_119530660

At least a SIPO investigation.

satguy · 27-08-2022 9:22pm

So it turns out, that, this guy is a real scumbag, a cheating money grabbing scumbag.

The exact type that would normally join FG, and fit in there.

So he thought he would hide safe and sound in the muddy ranks of FF,, Mostly all accidental landlord or publicans, and defo not the wide boys in FG.

He may now have to declare for FG in the next GE, or go the FG/IND route just like that other scumbag from Tipperary North..

ohnonotgmail · 27-08-2022 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119530704#Comment_119530704

His behaviour in general would justify that. The suggestion that the CoCo overpaid should also be looked at

shoegirl · 29-08-2022 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518046#Comment_119518046

Vicious circle though - if there is no incentive for landlords to rent out property, then tenants who cannot afford to buy cannot afford to rent, unless there is extensive building.

And if people are having difficulty affording higher property prices, and builders don't have incentives to make a profit on building, they won't build.

Can't see the state saving that - if there isn't a profit to be made in the private market I cannot see why it would be within the interest of builders to effectively contract work from the state either.

Its a global problem - literally every modern city has a high proportion of homeless people, with the exception of Finland, which peaked at 20,000 homeless in 1987, and got to work on it after that peak. It now has between 4-6k homeless. Part of their solution was simple: homes are too expensive because too often they are too big, build smaller homes and build more of them.

beggars_bush · 29-08-2022 8:00am

Big houses are an issue

A lot of studio or one bed accommodation are actually needed in towns and cities. We need to build up. Mixed size apartment and town house development.

Was getting rid of bed sits a bad idea?

With net immigration of 30K last year, its going to get worse

Brucie Bonus · 01-09-2022 12:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518868#Comment_119518868

The problem is even the homeless charities say we need to rely on private landlords in the immediate. Its going to take some time to turn it away from that. We need to make a return to building social housing instead of leasing and buying.

Sam Russell · 01-09-2022 10:43am

The main issue is security of tenure.

It should be an absolute right to continue a tenancy if the rent is paid and the terms of the tenancy is complied with (no anti-social problems). This exists in employment, so it should exist in housing.

The landlord evicting the tenant because they (say) they are selling the property (and quite often do not sell). It should be sold with the tenant unaffected. One way to counteract this is for a much higher capital gains tax if the tenant has been moved out. The property might have to be offered to the LA if tenant has rights to remain. Also a vacant property tax would reduce landlords keeping property empty while they look for higher rents.

We had the Land League for tenant farmers, now we need something similar for tenants of houses.

amacca · 01-09-2022 11:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552844#Comment_119552844

I'd agree somewhat...

I think a tenancy period should be agreed at the start and both parties should stick to it ....unless mutual agreement to terminate is reached....

This would be dependant upon the tenant continuing to pay rent and abide by reasonable terms....if tenant does not do that then they can legally be removed and its feasible to do do in a very short timeframe + pursue for lost rent and/or cost you repair damage etc

Trouble is I can't see that happening...but the fact it doesn't is contributing to the problem imo.

Robert Troy - Property Mogul

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