PV Feed In Tariff

And that's fair enough. A relatively high percentage of people dont switch. It baffles me to be honest as its a simple process. A few clicks on a website once a year and you are switched. You have to do some research I guess in terms of finding the right one to switch to but I dont see it as any different to finding the best rate for insurance or buying a new car etc... shop around and take what suits you best.

But I get ya, its not for everyone.

I actually have all this data since I got the install, so it was easy enough to knock out the real data for me. I should however state that I'm an "unusual" user with respect to consumption, so I wouldn't take what I have as normal.

So for me, with my telemetry, I come out about €200-220 ahead using a battery verses FIT (above chart is for 10 months).

I wouldn't say I'm justifying a battery purchase or not, only sharing the math. I purchased the battery before the FIT was here and the grant taken away. The landscape was different back then. With the same info, I'd have made the same choice.

Battery was €2800 (you won't get that price today as it was grant money etc - LOL!!) ..... so 10-12 years to payback that battery - but again, I'm an unusual case, so it's definitely a questionable purchase for most people.

I'm sorry but you going to such effort and expense to install a battery system and then not shopping around to the best provider each year is literally insanity.

Your provider could change their rates tomorrow to make your argued use case null and void so being on a specific tariff is largely irrelevant unless it particularly suits your specific usage, not your financial approach.

None of us expected the fit rates to be as strong as they were but at the time (with much cheaper unit rates), people were suggesting about 10c fit rate would render battery economics borderline. Now we're +80% on that, admittedly with significant uplift on unit rates also.

Your battery was 2800 but without it you wouldn't need a hybrid inverter, saving probably at least 750e from your instal, which you ought to factor into your payback also.

@KCross - good post. The FIT figures are far higher than any of us expected and I agree with you (and you've shown the sums) that it doesn't make much sense for most people to have a battery (that they paid a lot for)

Now, a bit of a counter argument. Let's go with your saving of just €0.39 per day based on a 5kWh battery. I've a 20kWh DIY battery and so do several of the regulars in this forum. So the savings from loading with night rate is €0.39 * 4 = €1.56 per day. I load up at least 200 days of the year, so that's a saving of well over €300 per year.

My battery system was a DIY install and my battery inverter is worth hundreds more than I paid for it. So a free system. I just paid €2300 for the new battery (and sold my old one for hundreds more than it cost me a few years ago). I will be able to easily sell this one next year for at least what I paid for it

So that €300 is a pure saving for me per year. Based on peak shifting to night time electricity alone. And of course at night most of the electricity is from wind, so it is much better for the environment too

"Insanity" (LOL) - that's a strong viewpoint.... but one your certainly entitled to. No, my take is that over time they all tend to balance out. I looked around when I joined SSE, and it was the cheapest at the time. Moving and going through the same rigmarole to save €100 or €200 quid a year isn't for me. I remember the last time I moved they fecked up the MRPN number , and for months I was getting bills where I'd paid off the balance due from my old provider. Sure, it's an unusual case, but at the time where I was tortured by having to phone ESB being put on hold, having to explain <again> to some support staff the problem, being put onto a manager. etc etc.....ach I'm sure you can imagine. It went on for weeks. Sort of put me off that lark as you can imagine.

Anyway, the battery is there for many. You've already paid for it.....might as well use it. If you haven't paid for one, do your math and see if it's right for you. With FIT being as good as it is.....it's not a given a battery is right. I do however think the math isn't as simple in favour of FIT though as with smart meters and those "peak hour" rates (which look fairly nasty) a small battery might be the way to go to avoid those 2-3 hrs a day if only.

I certainly won’t argue the point on your DIY install. I have no reference or figures for that so I’ll assume you’re correct.

DIY install is niche though and really only for enthusiasts. It’s not really where the market is at, but well done all the same if it’s saving you that but don’t confuse others into thinking they can achieve that with the “one stop” solutions that are out there. They won’t.

Course we're forgetting that Pascal will want a cut for anything over €200/year - so that does dint the FIT shine a little.

Don't get me wrong lads. As mentioned I bought my battery at a different time when we had the grant and no FIT, or were pessimistically thinking it was going to be €0.05 or there abouts - least that was what i thought it would be. I'm also in the enviable position currently that I've a D/N meter, and haven't refused a smart meter, so I'll be getting the "estimated export". Considering I self-consume virtually everything of what I generate, it's the best of both worlds.... while it lasts!

I definitely think that the landscape has changed. It was a no brainer to me 12 months ago to get a battery, now with the FIT for your average Joe I reckon it's questionable. Plenty of people like unkel and myself out there who can and have made the math work - but yeah, it's not the norm i think.

Good point. It could well be a couple of years of getting deemed FIT (while exporting near nothing) before we have smart meters. That's a substantial saving there. Having your cake and eating it.

Good debate here and people getting their points across and not digging each other. I don't have a battery but am torn. So this helps.

IMO time of use (TOU) on smart tariff will only go up and in time could hit the morning peak too, so will energy prices only rise. Battery flattens all that cost. And as Chris says, FIT is not a guarantee. So I'm gonna do the maths myself to load up a battery at a cheap EV rate for few hours from 2-5am type thing and run the bulk of the day from that and load shift the rest

If I did get a battery and to @KCross point I might never use in the summer so I don't deteriorate it. Could just use for non summer load shifting.

I'd agree DIY batteries are more for enthusiasts (and a rabbit hole I'd struggle to get out of personality wise) and they need fair bit of space. Maybe I could go there down the line. Never say never :)

Anyways, all good stuff to mull over

The CRU's view is that the market will decide. So, its all down to decent levels of competition and the global energy market.... so its impossible to predict.

If, for instance, the war ended this year and energy prices dropped back it would mean the day rates would also drop back and you can be sure the FiT rate would then also drop back too as FiT is very unlikely to be more than the day rate.... but that is a swings and roundabouts thing really as the FiT should go up and down with the market but lets see.

I would still reiterate.... whatever FiT you get its "free money" as you have no battery capital costs and no maintenance or replacement costs. My view would be to drop the battery from your quote and put that money towards a larger array. Each to their own, of course.

It's very dependant on the rates your on. KCross gave a good post on it (#808) with examples. However, while it works for the BordGais example, it wouldn't work with the rates that I'm on with SSE - and it's a little dependant also on your consumption profile. Filling a battery and using that during the day will yield better than using that solar provided unit at night.

To answer your comment explicitly though.....

Sure - so you have a unit of energy coming from your solar panels. Using the bordgas rates of FIT = €0.19 you could export that unit and get €0.19 for it. So why not fill your battery up at night rate (€0.08 or something) so that it's full from night rate, and then export everything you can during the day. Then in your evening time, instead of using that unit which you got €0.19 cause you exported it, you use your battery that you paid €0.08 to fill.

Again, works in some scenarios but depends on the rates.

@simpsimp - "So I suppose here you just fill your boots between 2-5am?"

Exactly. Those hours are a bit mean, but you can get about 20kWh into your EV every day, more than enough for most people to do their daily driving, it will give roughly 40k km per year for your EVs combined (if you have more than one). It's also more than enough to fill up your home storage battery if you have a typical 5kWh battery. For those of us with 20kWh batteries, it's nowhere near enough though.

Those are very green hours though, I wouldn't be surprised if the electricity generated in Ireland today during those hours is about 65-70% from wind on average

I wonder will the FIT increase by 35%...?

Its easy to pay high headline rates when it is to the 1% of population that have PV installed (I think I read that figure on here recently). Will most likely be a lowered rate as PV pick up increases throughout the population (supply and demand). Aligned with the certainty on increases in the smart rates (we will all eventually be on) over the coming years it is a difficult future prediction on what system one should install.

I have selected my 'costly' battery system to offer me some autonomy from the suppliers control on the unit costs (figures will eventually align to 'dealer always wins'). Does it stack up against your figures outlined in your post further above? Nope, your argument is compelling.....for today. I have invested in a lifetime system so, as last months decision (pre FIT announcements) on system selection doesn't stack up with this months, so this months decision wont stack up against next years. I wasn't planning anything else with the money invested so that same amount would be gravely impacted by inflation by the time the batteries lifecycle is reduced. It is a difficult situation to predict. Peak rates haven't even been considered. Sure, we dont even know yet if we are on Putins want list!

TLDr; not sure I would base my decision solely on todays available information. When I put in the system in I was focused on production figures. Now I know they're not the focus, it is all about consumption ability (FIT irons out the difference somewhat). Production/ consumption/ load transferring strategy will remain relatively constant for me while all of the peak/ day/ night/ FIT/ smart rates fluctuate over the duration of the system. I still contend that a good sized array and battery could beat the dealer eventually over system lifetime and on....possibly maybe? Maybe I paid high for peace of mind. I know the EV certainly has delivered that when passing the petrol stations recently.