Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

26-08-2022 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523988#Comment_119523988

Who said that every hotel room will be given over to Ukrainians? Have you got a link to that claim?

TaurenDruid · 26-08-2022 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524970#Comment_119524970

Yes, you can't have statistics for a month until the end of the month. We're still in August. The updated stats for August will doubtless be available in the first couple of weeks of September.

maninasia · 26-08-2022 3:33pm

24,000 already contracted, more to go!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/4300-ukrainian-refugees-in-need-of-new-rooms-as-rental-deals-run-out-41894742.html

26-08-2022 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523575#Comment_119523575

Imagine the almighty crash that's coming then, Inflation at its highest, utility companies raising prices, do you honestly think the feel good factor is going to last?

pauly58 · 26-08-2022 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524651#Comment_119524651

Well they weren't waving big blue & yellow flags alright, but they were speaking in an East European language that wasn't Polish (I worked with around 70 Poles in my last job ) could it be they were getting into cars with a Ukrainian number plate ? But whatever, they seemed to have more disposable income than most.

mcsean2163 · 26-08-2022 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524643#Comment_119524643

What happened with the ceasefire violations from 16 - 23 February as monitored by OSCE? Remember the tornado battalion. https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-tornado-battalion-rogue-paramilitaries-kyiv-trial-crimes/28205795.html

We are familiar with Russia's crimes but Russia will have a different story ( to them ousting a democratically elected leader in 2014 is a coup). Two very corrupt countries according to international monitoring agencies.

I think it is great we are helping the Ukrainian refugees and should be prepared for 100k as we said we would be. Pointing out it is complex with lots of USA entanglement on Russia's border doesn't excuse Putin but if the war is ever going to end without going nuclear it seems there needs to be some compromise and calm negotiation IMHO.

In the meantime the slaughter pit of real human beings continue to slaughter. That's not good. Note Putin is not being slaughtered or even hurt...

TaurenDruid · 26-08-2022 4:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119525801#Comment_119525801

Couldn't have been Ukrainian, so. We have it on good authority from the experts on here that they get everything handed to them, and never spend a penny of their dole money as a result because they don't need to (even though 1 in 4 adults are working!) and sure they wouldn't have fridges and cookers in their hotel rooms anyway. Maybe it's the student accommodation these ones are in?

26-08-2022 4:40pm

Homelessness at a record high in the History of the state

The number of homeless people in the State has reached a record high of 10,568 people which includes 3,137 children.

Airtricity raising electricity prices by 39% which will add an extra €600 on average to annual bills. Also raising gas prices by 35.4% which will add an extra €500 on average to annual bills. Further hikes are expected. SSE last increased its prices in May when it hiked the unit price of its gas by 39% and its electricity by over 30%.

It also increased its prices three times in 2021.

When all these price increases are taken together, Daragh Cassidy from price comparison website Bonkers.ie, said SSE customers will be paying over €1,000 more for their gas and €1,100 more for their electricity each year.

The capacity and funds to deal with extra refugees dwindles daily. The government urgently needs to address the rates of social welfare Ukrainians are getting and bring it in line with other refugees rates when they have free accommodation and free meals.

If they did that there would be less Ukrainians looking to come to Ireland. It’s a balancing act and the scale can’t tip much more to one side with this current set up. This just isn’t sustainable in its current format.

TaurenDruid · 26-08-2022 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119525851#Comment_119525851

Saw some decent analysis earlier that suggested Putin's only realistic "out" now will be some form of referendum in the occupied areas, with a "victory" in one of Crimea, Donbas or Luhansk being enough for him to claim vindication and a "win". Though the chance of anything approaching a genuine referendum is nil, obviously. It would still need Ukraine to accept the result, which is pretty damn unlikely.

mcsean2163 · 26-08-2022 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119525897#Comment_119525897

The American's are pushing for this:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraines-six-key-conditions-for-peace-talks-with-putins-russia/

Not that I disagree with them but they are saying a condition for peace talks should be a trial in the international criminal court of Russian military for war crimes.

The USA never recognised the authority of the ICC over USA citizens and Russia withdrew in 2016. So, a country that doesn't engage with ICC wants the military of another country tried by ICC.

I suspect if the USA was not involved the war would never have started and if they insist on these conditions in order to begin peace talks, the war may never end. It seems Ukraine is stuck between two countries not known for restraint. Obama managed to stay out of it,

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/politics/obama-said-to-resist-growing-pressure-from-all-sides-to-arm-ukraine.html

not so Trump/ Biden.

I hope it stops and the Human rights improve in both countries. I remember reading that most Russian troops in Ukraine were poor and from ethnic minorities. The whole thing seems such a horrific slaughter of human beings.

Igotadose · 26-08-2022 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526348#Comment_119526348

I actually suspect if RuSSia were not involved, the war wouldn't have started.

FWIW the Atlantic Council isn't a US government organization, it is independent though it has good access to the USG. It's not the State Department and what you posted, though it was well written, is speculative. And, to clarify what you might have misunderstood, it's the Atlantic Council's opinion that Ukraine are insisting on the ICC trials of RuSSian war criminals, not the USG. Likewise the withdrawal of RuSSia from Sevastopol and Crimea.

As for restraint, uhh... take a guess as to which side's shown the most restraint so far? Russia, who as you point out are throwing poor, underequipped, undertrained conscripts into the grinder, or the West, who have refrained from sending in even more deadly, longer-distance weapons to Ukraine. Some of the kit available in the West could enable Ukraine to shell Moscow. That's been withheld while Putin shoots at Kyiv.

Now, what any of this has to do with refugees in Ireland is confusing to me. This arc would be better discussed on the Russia thread.

fly_agaric · 26-08-2022 7:03pm

@_Kaiser_ A very long post, almost impossible to address because its going off all over the place...but I...cannot help responding to some bits. Sorry.

You're absolutely right that I had concerns from the start. Why would I need to apologise for that? As someone who follows politics and current affairs generally, I was already thinking of how this move would impact on already serious issues in health, housing and others in the aftermath of Covid and the economic and societal damage caused there.

No apology needed but it shows you disagreed with the policy "from the start" and would have blocked it then. Not that you accepted it needed to be done & now have decided it is enough. It did not take a prophet to predict more people coming to Ireland are going to cause, in particular, more accomodation problems here.

Having watched the likes of Leo, McEntee and Micheal Martin I was already concerned that we'd have 2 of them grandstanding for their "betters" in Europe, and the third dithering and being led by the nose, much as he was by Holohan, not to mention that he had already achieved his only goal (not to be the only FF leader not to be Taoiseach) and unlikely to run again as a TD thus aware it'll be FG/Leo's problem anyway.

As it turns out I was right to be concerned, wasn't I? Not even 6 months later and look where we are!

We are not Germany, or France. We are a small island nation on the edge of Europe with a population less than that of most major cities. We have no real industry beyond the agriculture sector and are too dependent on the multinational sector and FDI to balance the books and support the population. Add to that the long standing problems in the areas I referred to at the start, coupled with a mix of apathy, incompetence, and self-interest from TD's to solving them (eg: the Robert Troy farce), and the reality (unpalatable as it may be to some) is that we simply cannot help everyone who lands at the door with a sad story.

Well I'm afraid it won't be. We face a very difficult few months as it is with the economic impacts of this ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine, on top of the critical issues I've already mentioned. Adding still more new arrivals to the mix will only stretch the systems and supports to the point of collapse - assuming we're not there already in some instances.

So yes, we've done enough. Our "leaders" have bitten off more than we can chew here and it's not just the Irish and EU citizens who will suffer for it, but the Ukrainians here as well.

You are catastrophising. Pressure on housing and some other services is for domestic reasons entirely in our control. Events post Feb. 2022 are another bale of straw on top of a loaded up camel's back.

Most of that is the usual anti-"gubber-mint"/anti EU ("grandstanding for betters in Europe") kneejerk rubbish lapped up here when political reality is that the Irish govt. opposing this at EU level would have been idiotic, apart from it being wrong. I mean even CA-IMHOs favourite Putin friendly "bad boys" Hungary didn't oppose the directive or try and escape.

On a different topic, I have not agreed at all with Ireland's lax immigration/asylum/citizenship policies pre this year. All that was under control of the government and has always been.

My thoughts on EU directive are that the triggering of it has been a help to Ukraine's war effort. If it had not been done, at worst several millions more displaced people would have had to be assisted in the thread's"safer" regions in March & April while they are trying to beat off an invasion. An extra 3-4 million displaced to be dealt with in a short period back then would not be...not so good for them...considering you seem to think the 50k population increase over a longer period is dooming Ireland to a catastrophe.

Money alone doesn't create administration/people/systems out of thin air. The EU's ability to cope with it was much greater than Ukraine's (more people, more developed, far richer). Alternatively, we might have seen the Eastern EU countries neighbouring or closer to Ukraine acting unilaterally (as they may do over Russian visas or other new sanctions if they can't get any further EU agreements). That would not have been a good outcome either IMO. It wasn't good for the EU when Germany/others did this in 2016 on Syrian/ME migrants, an agreed solution to that would have been much better than more divisions and rows in the EU over migration.

Now, when situation is more stable, Ukraine's govt. will want these people to return at a rate it can handle. The rapid inflow may be creating some strain here or elsewhere in the EU but they are mostly young and potentially economically active people, many have kids in tow as well. The permanent loss of all these people due to the war will be a very heavy blow.

For the moment the govt. and Ireland are just going to have to deal with the situation despite our other problems. BTW I think a post of mine got deleted but in that I already said I don't personally believe govt. should be going beyond what is obliged under the directive. My understanding is this is more generous than the usual asylum/refugee provisions, but its not imo matching the calculated raising of anger and division with anecdotes here that remind me so much of stuff posted on ye olde threads here about "dole scroungers", "travellers" getting everything etc.

malinheader · 26-08-2022 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119525877#Comment_119525877

I was literally listening to this on the news this evening as I passed another coach full of Ukranians disembarking in Donegal. All for helping others but when you can't house your own citizens how can you house anyone else's. Totally mad.

xxxxxxl · 26-08-2022 7:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119525394#Comment_119525394

Well the red cross cannot put them in houses so where are they staying in the Cloud ?

26-08-2022 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526625#Comment_119526625

So, you’re talking bull.

xxxxxxl · 26-08-2022 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526653#Comment_119526653

Nope, Where are they staying then. No houses. I don't see anymore tents being put down. Rental market is full. We know their being put in hotels. Suggestions are now some being moved from students accomodation. So prey tell where are they going ?

ShamNNspace · 26-08-2022 8:05pm

Taking the piss this craic in fairness

enricoh · 26-08-2022 8:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526625#Comment_119526625

I'm sure Ashford castle n dromoland etc will be still on the go- the rest it'll be a lottery. There's 10% of Ukrainians staying in pledged houses at the mo, come crimbo there'll be plenty of homeowners saying we've done our stint n the government can take over. If not sooner when Lecky n gas bills start arriving.

Maybe they'll stay in a parallel universe or else it'll be a hotel- have you a link that can prove they won't be staying in a parallel universe!

BreakingNews.ie: One tenth of Ukrainian refugees now living in pledged accommodation.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/10-of-ukrainian-refugees-now-living-in-pledged-accommodation-1354819.html

xxxxxxl · 26-08-2022 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526767#Comment_119526767

I will ask again. Where will they go as explained by posters.

iamwhoiam · 26-08-2022 9:04pm

Most of those houses were pledged in March . Now suddenly they are trying to get the refugees into pledged homes . What actually kept them since March ? A friend of mine is waiting since last March , her rooms empty and only this week got a call from Red Cross

TaurenDruid · 26-08-2022 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526712#Comment_119526712

You are taking the piss, yes.

A couple on the dole will not be looking for an au pair.

Ukrainians can work here. One in four adults are working. Most in low-paid jobs, but some of them are renting their own accommodation and working in highly-skilled, well-paid jobs. And are paying taxes here. That's who'll be hiring an au pair.

Or, y'know - it's an enterprising Irish person killing two birds with the one stone: they get an au pair, the person they hire gets a job and accommodation.

Subzero3 · 26-08-2022 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526712#Comment_119526712

That will be happening once the Ukrianinans get settled in. Extra cash in hand, the host will get 400 quid off the government per month so it's only costing them 400 for a full time nanny per month.

The refugee gets 203 of paddy and 200 off the host.

Will tax be paid?

maninasia · 26-08-2022 9:12pm

Yes Mary you are correct . 24,000 hotel rooms is so few.

And many thousands more rooms going to be occupied this month as they get chucked out of student accommodation and more keep arriving here.

Already 1 billion chicked at private crony friends of our local governments , only 2 more billion to go.

TaurenDruid · 26-08-2022 9:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526767#Comment_119526767

Over 100 hotels and B&Bs with accommodation available in Dublin for next weekend on the travel sites. 40 in Galway. 30 in Cork. 60 in Clare, despite it being "definitely full, no really, I checked!" 150 in Donegal!

ShamNNspace · 26-08-2022 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526923#Comment_119526923

I'm sorry, you're post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, you sound like the drunk in a bar who would start an argument with his own toe

mcsean2163 · 26-08-2022 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526951#Comment_119526951

In 2020, Ireland had an estimated 847 hotels (62,950 rooms), with 35% of rooms located in Dublin.

- "Ireland: Hotel Market Trends & Analysis - Hospitality Net"

It's not insignificant but this is wartime and we've made a commitment. We've done nothing for Yemen and almost nothing for Palestine but this time we're actually helping. And you're complaining. Complaining about helping people in a time of trouble.

Fwiw, it's probably also helping hotels recoup some of the covid19 losses.

Maybe it's the incremental nature, communication could be better. If the government said we need x amount hotels and x amounts houses from public we'd know where we're headed. The fact they are not leading the housing instead of relying on the red cross is mind bogglingly stupid.

Anyway, why not get with the program and try and help people in need? Instead of complaining?

maninasia · 26-08-2022 9:58pm

Get with what program, the crony burn 3 billion program?

I mean its not like we need the money right.....what would one billion do invest in AGS?!?

We shouldnt be giving away our money over generously. Be smarter!

We have a lot of problems we need to deal with first here (by the way that must be a photoshopped pic of cops in Dublin..they haven't been sighted since the Spire went up....).

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2022/08/26/antisocial-behaviour-in-dublin-readers-comments/

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/record-levels-homelessness-ireland-distressing-27841709

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-rent-crisis-worsens-notices-24699138

Massive inflationary pressures are building. Irish people and resident immigrants are being evicted with literally nowhere to go. Students can't find a room to stay in. People are hurting.

DaithiMa · 26-08-2022 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526914#Comment_119526914

You'd wonder is it to do with lining the pockets of certain individuals with vested interests who have been accomodating them for big money up until now.

TaurenDruid · 26-08-2022 10:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527034#Comment_119527034

Let me make it clear for you.

You posted something you screengrabbed from facebook, and posted it here as some kind of "gotcha". Ukrainians looking to hire an au pair, the **** cheek of them, or something like that.

I pointed out a) if they are Ukrainian and can afford it, why the **** wouldn't they, and b) it could just as easily be Irish people looking for a Ukrainian au pair.

TomSweeney · 26-08-2022 10:57pm

I've seen many luxury high end SUV's here in Spain with a Ukraine plate.

We are being taken for fools, how much money are these people getting ???

Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

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