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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Technology changes. Stuff now would not have been viable back then. Directional Drilling for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Back when, the 2000s, a goose chase all of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    ..

    Post edited by Multipass on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Dunno but their not going to get a licence for fracked gas for example not matter how viable it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,664 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    From the Independent


    Environment and Transport Minister Eamon Ryan’s recent RTÉ interview raised eyebrows within his own department.

    Mr Ryan complained about newspapers printing details of “dramatic scenarios”.

    “We expect to be able to supply the power that this country needs in the next two to three months,” he said.

    One source said the fact he did the interview in the first place was surprising.

    “He wants to talk about renewables. He doesn’t want to talk about the risk to energy security that is unfolding as we speak.

    But his officials are certainly very concerned about energy security. They have a path worn to the Department of the Taoiseach


    This is the problem with ideologues. In total denial publicly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I would not see that as a good reason for banning exploration by private companies when it would not cost the State a red cent.

    Even the European architects of this green policy, Germany, a policy they have thrown their hat at yet we are still following, are back exploring, burning coal, building and leasing LNG terminals. The Finns are even back harvesting peat for energy generation.

    The only lose from granting exploration licences is to green ideology.

    Post edited by charlie14 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The public will need to watch very carefully to see what this proposed infrastructure to support renewables is about.

    We cannot allow ourselves to be railroaded into Green Tech and Industry that could have deleterious effects on our landscape and environment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    We "expect" If you had a customer that said they Expect to be able to pay you. No Red flags ? and what after te 2-3 months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We have a limited carbon budget. We should use this budget for uses that have the lowest payback time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The nimby manifesto.

    Btw, landscapes change. Ask your grandmother.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,664 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Carbon budget? lol. No one is going to care. Priority will be keeping the lights on and heat going across Europe.

    I'm afraid all that stuff will be pushed to the side.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    We have a budget ? That is news to me.

    I was always under the impression a budget was an estimate of income and expenditure for a set period of time. Seeing as we have a budget, what is the estimate expenditure of following the green policy of sorting our energy problems by throwing more renewables at it and and how long will that take ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You need to to take a look at your keyboard. It`s been stuck on one word for a while now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Seems the papers are saying cabinet warned over blackouts and Mr Martin calling for better early warning. Cat's out the bag then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    The should cut the grid power from the gaff. Put a windmill outside big enough to power it no storage as we dont have it now. See how long it takes the rolling blackouts to get old.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Ryan is the minister in charge and both the Eirgrid and the CRU report directly to him, so it was his responsibility to inform the cabinet and outline the methods he proposed to ensure blackouts do not happen. Other than adding more gas fired plants I have heard nothing else he proposed or nothing that the cabinet rejected, so to me the suggestion of it being otherwise is no more than an attempted pass the buck exercise.

    Martin isn`t innocent. As I`m concerned he abdicated his responsibilities as Taoiseach by his personal agenda to not be the first leader of FF not to become Taoiseach and has allowed the greens carte blanche in the hope that his term would run smoothly so as to look good in the record books. That has now come back to bite him in the ass. So yes he has been complicit in this mess we now find ourselves in, but is he directly responsible, no. The real driver has been, through his actions and inaction, Minister Ryan and his party`s agenda. Collective cabinet responsibility does not mean the Taoiseach of the day is directly responsible for all Ministerial actions and inactions. That buck stops with the Minister in charge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    In the world of ideology, ideology no matter how crazy trumps intellect ever time.

    If you didn`t know better you would imagine wind is now charging. Our latest strike price for on-shore wind and solar is the same as the U.K`s for nuclear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui



    Yet another greenie who doesn't understand the tech basics or the central point. No wonder they all believe in hopium and magic beans.

    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman



    Stealing this from the Russia thread by Darth Putin.


    Germany are investigating unusual payments to the "Climate Foundation" from Gazprom and how it may have influenced regional government decisions. Merkel and Scholtz are likely to face a parliamentary committee for questions, as they may have been aware of it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    And.. the thread is called

    "Green" policies are destroying this country

    as in Ireland and FYI Merkel, Schultz are not in the Green Party in Germany



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭Nermal


    I know, but how far in advance are they hedged? When can we expect per-unit gas rates of ten times the historic level to start being charged to the consumer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I probably should have added more to it, apologies.

    I think it highlights how Russia have been using and funding green activist groups to lobby governments.

    I don't think it would be a far stretch to launch some sort of investigation to see if any of our government were lobbied by Gazprom funded activists, or if money is filtering to green groups in Ireland via Gazprom subsidiaries.

    The push for green energy reliance was far too quick. Anyone with a brain couldn't see it. Who exactly were lobbying government for such a quick change?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    There are lots of pathways to carbon neutral energy. It's a matter of picking the ones that suit us best and investing in them

    The final few percent are always the hardest. But we can handle those after all the lowest hanging fruits are picked

    The main concepts are

    1. Big interconnected super grids build resilience

    2. Storage, even short term, allows time to switch on backups and completely eliminate peaker gas turbines reducing our reliance on fossil fuels significantly

    3. Local power generation and storage on the domestic or municipal scale adds resilience

    4. Increasing efficiency can reduce demand

    5. Storage means peak demand disappears. Energy demand can be divorced from generation capacity. In the same way we don't just get to drink water when it's raining, we can store energy when it's abundant and consume it when we need it.

    None of that gets you to "carbon neutral". For a start it says "energy" when it means "electricity". Electricity was only 22% of our energy use in 2020. The only part of it that makes economic sense is number 2, using small-scale storage for peak shaving. Number 4 will make no difference due to Jevons Paradox, unless it's a euphemism for rationing. Number 3 does nothing for you on a becalmed winter evening unless it's diesel generators. Number 5 is Green hopium that's not coming in the next several decades and probably never. Number 1 is a very expensive way for an island nation to get access to a distributed market and is not going to get to a substantial fraction of needed capacity any time soon. All of them represent multiples of expense for the same capacity, and you still need them backed up by some other form of baseload power -- either fossil fuels or nuclear.

    There's a reason this is all handwavey sh1te about "multiple pathways" and not an actual plan. There is no actual plan. We've been led up the garden path by ideologues who have no clue what they're doing with our most important infrastructural resource. It turns out that not only can they not show us a costed step-by-step plan to get us to their energy nirvana, but there was no plan in place for how we would maintain energy security at each stage. A generous interpretation is that they are incompetent idiots. The more sinister one is that they actually want the current systems to fail so they claim their crop of unreliables is no less unreliable than current sources. Of course, these are not mutually exclusive -- Eamon Ryan is showing all the hallmarks of being both sinister and an idiot, with his opposition to sensible energy security precautions.

    No doubt Ryan is not single-handedly responsible for the mess we are in and we will be seeing a whole lot of finger-pointing in coming months. There is another source of these problems, though. Without a costed plan, nobody has any idea if the mandatory targets we have signed up to are remotely realistic. Personally I'm pretty sure they're not but nobody in the establishment is even trying to prove it one way or another. But because the targets are mandatory we have a green "fifth column" issuing legal challenges to anything that they argue is incompatible with the impossible goals that have been set. An Taisce and "Friends of the Irish Environment" are two highly litigious organisations who crop up everywhere and -- if you look at their personnel -- are heavily intertwined with each other and with government. An Taisce is a supposed NGO which somehow morphed from being Ireland's National Trust (a designation they still use) -- supposedly concerned with our built heritage -- to now having a mission statement that is exclusively about climate change. Ryan is more than happy for these groups to function as Green Party proxies in the courts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    We are in enough trouble as it is. Best situation is a mild Winter so we can just get by, the random energy P.R. departments won't be able to pull their levelised cost of electricity B.S., it won't wash because it won't match the reality of the demands on peoples energy bills.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Only coal or nuclear can save us. So it will probably be coal to please the greenies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Where have the years of collected carbon taxes been spent or funnelled into?

    Pissed away on schemes like Bicycles for Bulgarians and Window boxes for Lettuce lovers.

    Those funds need to be given back to the tax payers to help us get through the winter



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    As I've observed before, let this Green Technology infrastructure be built in the environs of say Dublin and we'll soon see all about NIMBYism.

    I canvassed once for a Green Party that was opposed to destruction of the environment. Now the same party has morphed into promoting destruction of the same landscapes, once it's done with Green Tech.



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