"Green" policies are destroying this country

Pa ElGrande · 28-08-2022 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532319#Comment_119532319

FYI - Under whose government did Germany push for Energiewende? and then proceed to make it EU policy and mandates? Who did not follow through on the 2014 Minsk agreement? and who exited before it all fell apart? We may have a radically different view of Merkel by the end of the decade.

Quo vadis, network stability? (aus Deutsch)

The authors also conclude:

The importance of nuclear power plants for security of supply in base-load operation and their and their ability to operate the grid in parallel with renewable renewable energies have been demonstrated. The nuclear power plants appear to be well suited for the energy made to achieve the future goal of carbon-free power generation. However, the Atomic Energy Act foresees an early end to nuclear power generation by the end of 2022.”

Furze99 · 28-08-2022 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531584#Comment_119531584

And thought it's not mentioned much, ahem I wonder why!! Every time the likes of energy vendors raise their prices, the state takes a bonus in terms of extra value added tax income. It's to the stage that you'd have to question the ethics of VAT, supposed to be a consumer tax on luxuries etc. But it's a very destructive and non progressive tax in how it works in times of rapidly increasing inflation.

Loafing Oaf · 28-08-2022 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532381#Comment_119532381

I don't think it would be a far stretch to launch some sort of investigation to see if any of our government were lobbied by Gazprom funded activists, or if money is filtering to green groups in Ireland via Gazprom subsidiaries.

Make you bring that entire bulletin board with you when you're making your presentation...

charlie14 · 28-08-2022 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531665#Comment_119531665

It makes even less sense when you see that for 3 prolonged periods within the last year wind was supplying 6% and less of our requirements, so to get to that 100% tripling the capacity still would not work, you would need to increase it by a multiple of at least 16.

We know the capacity factor for nuclear (92.5% according to the U.S. Dept of Energy) and we know it`s not dependent on intermittent fuel sources like wind turbines and solar panels, so there is no need for multiples of capacity. Greens when it comes to nuclear make a big play of cost and the time needed for construction, yet when asked the same on getting to supply from renewables being sufficient to meet demand, not a single one of them can even guess at a figure or a timeline to do that. They are so numerically challenged, (or simply wish to ignore), that for the lifespan of a nuclear plant compared to wind turbines and solar panels, even if they did have a figure it would have to be at the very least doubled.

cnocbui · 28-08-2022 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532718#Comment_119532718

Liz Truss is playing a blinder in the UK by suggesting a VAT cut to help people with the affordability of living crisis. It might be a Sunday, but so terrifying an emergency that idea probably represents to the higher ups in Revenue, It would amost not surprise me if they were holding an emergeny zoom session right now on how to damp and counter the real danger of such a malignant and dangerous virus crossing the sea and taking hold.

Banana Republic 1 · 28-08-2022 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532612#Comment_119532612

the bike to work scheme was around long before carbon taxes. I don’t believe theres a grant for window boxes.

Banana Republic 1 · 28-08-2022 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532712#Comment_119532712

This thread is about Ireland.

Pa ElGrande · 28-08-2022 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532734#Comment_119532734

I made a start, in a previous post. I find it rather vexing that climate emergency and carbon budget legislation gets through the Dáil & Seanad without many votes, almost like nobody wants to rock the boat and turns a blind eye to it,, like politicians turned a blind eye to the problems electricity generation despite setting a target of nearly a 1 million EVs on the road and 600,000 heat pumps by 2030. There is more to this than the Green party, the "body politic" see enrichment via pursuit of "Green policies".

Sell off ESB and spend the money on green energy, says Fianna Fáil TD Barry Cowen

The ESB should be sold for €15 billion and the cash used to develop new forms of energy, Fianna Fáil TD Barry Cowen has said.

ESB is the dominant provider of electricity in the country and also the largest supplier of domestic energy via its retail division, Electric Ireland.

<snip>

We are already years behind the UK. As well as powering ourselves sustainably and cost-effectively, we can also be the renewable energy exporter and backbone to a new green Europe, creating well-paid jobs here,' he said.'Ireland needs to leapfrog Scotland and others and become the global leader of an industry that could be worth €300billion by 2050 - more or less the size of the Irish economy now.'

Mr Cowen also called for a stand-alone Department of Energy 'to replace the scenario where at the minute six Government departments and as many Government agencies hold different parts of the energy jigsaw'.

Darth Putin · 28-08-2022 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532319#Comment_119532319

Irish Green Party following the exact footsteps of German one

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532842#Comment_119532842

Global issues have repercussions on Ireland, we don’t live in a vacuum, see GLOBAL climate change, is reverting to living in caves and abandoning all technology would do nothing to save the climate in a wider global context

anyways thread is not about Green Party but Green (aka environmentalist religion fuelled) policies of whom Green Party are just one facet

beside who made you the moderator?

There are threads in infrastructure etc forums with much narrower scope than here in CA, go there if it bothers you imho

Banana Republic 1 · 28-08-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532866#Comment_119532866

Agh so your just against change as opposed to the Green Party.

Darth Putin · 28-08-2022 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532883#Comment_119532883

quite opposite

I oppose stupid investment into wind and solar without corresponding investment into storage with result being reliance on gas, which can’t be extracted or searched for in Ireland despite at least twenty years of gas here, which would offer plenty of time to solve storage problems

and/or build nuclear

a co2 free technology which greens are bizarrely against, eh oh just shows concerns around climate change in reality are very shallow

Pa ElGrande · 28-08-2022 2:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532842#Comment_119532842

Remember when we were told we voted incorrectly and had to correct our mistake by having a second referendum on both Lisbon and Nice treaties. Well, we now take orders from Germany via it's proxy, the EU. You probably heard of the EU Emissions Trading System by now. (basically the modern day equivalent of the medieval custom of buying indulgences from the Catholic church). This is indeed about Ireland.

2020 - Timmermans defends higher EU goals on climate change

2020 - Covid-19 lockdown 'may help Ireland avoid €600m EU fine over carbon target'

2020 - EU climate plan sets stage for an explosive rise in carbon prices

2021 - EU’s ambitious carbon plan locks Ireland into even bigger emission cuts

2021 - EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

Pa ElGrande · 28-08-2022 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528028#Comment_119528028

2016 - Planting trees is good for the environment, right?

Many eejits are thinking they are “saving the planet”, the real reason is to try to avoid the EU fines.

Pa ElGrande · 28-08-2022 3:11pm

Europe’s fertilizer industry victim of EU’s energy chaos

“European fertilizer industry is in full-fledged crisis because the European gas market is bust. The record high prices of natural gas, which represent 90% of industry’s variable production costs, makes it impossible for European producers to compete. As a result, over 70% of European production capacity has been curtailed. If the situation prevails, we fear that remaining producers could also be affected”, said Jacob Hansen, Director General at Fertilizers Europe.

According to head of the ECB, Lagarde, it is climate change causing the inflation . . . .

What do you mean by that?

We have an action plan with objectives, timelines and teams responsible for its implementation and we are making progress. In early July we presented some modifications to the way in which climate considerations are integrated into the econometric models that we use for monetary policy, as climate change is having a clear impact, especially on inflation. If more and more climate disasters, droughts and famines occur throughout the world, there will be repercussions on prices, on insurance premiums and on the financial sector. We need to take that into account.

source

patnor1011 · 28-08-2022 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531041#Comment_119531041

You are correct however this (running out of them) is not going to happen any time soon. There is plenty of them available and plenty more of untapped reserves we know about. There sure are another undiscovered fields.

Funny thing not a lot of people and certainly not greens realize is that our woke punishment of Russia resulted in them flaring off gas they can not sell and us opening up coal plants to make up for shortage.

Banning imports from Russia result in more pollution and bigger price as we will end up using Russian goods only that they will be imported indirectly anyway.

patnor1011 · 28-08-2022 5:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531123#Comment_119531123

Sorry but once again this is just a wet dream. You talk about solutions and technologies which do not exist. Current existing technologies are not capable to serve in capacity you dream about.

Akrasia · 28-08-2022 8:33pm

The last few days of posts on this thread could have been lifted directly from a fossil fuels PR managers wet dream.

They demonise renewables because renewables are the real threat to fossil fuels dominant position in the energy sector

Fossil fuel interests are successfully implanting the ideas into your brain that solution to a volatile gas market. Is to invest more heavily in gas infrastructure

Pa ElGrande · 28-08-2022 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534516#Comment_119534516

Random energy generation is completely dependent on fossil fuels to handle the erratic and unreliable nature of the technology, whereas fossil fuels don't require wind or solar as backup. The batteries have to be put in to account for the sudden dips in output and the fact that maintaining inertia is much more expensive without spinning reserve. Nuclear power for baseload has been rejected in this country (1979 debate inserted) and large generation plants with 3 months of storage capacity are due to be phased out, all the while domestic gas production is set to fall leaving us dependent on a single gas pipeline and no gas storage facility.

Wind , solar and batteries can never deliver a reliable generation solution and neither can green hydrogen. The politicians all over Europe who created the mess over the past decade and ignored the engineering limitations, instead getting hooked on hopium are now getting a rude awakening as their constituents get handed the bills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_S-qhhllnE

Banana Republic 1 · 28-08-2022 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532866#Comment_119532866

No

Banana Republic 1 · 28-08-2022 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533044#Comment_119533044

Agh so you finally ticked your long term agenda box and flushed yourself out with your own dogs and grenades.

Banana Republic 1 · 28-08-2022 9:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533201#Comment_119533201

That’s not unusual, plenty of people don’t drink and drive cause they don’t want to get caught not because there afraid of mowing down pedestrians.

Darth Putin · 28-08-2022 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534516#Comment_119534516

Have you taken a look at Eirgrid dashboard today, take a wild guess where 90% of electricity came from

if you cared about climate you be shouting for nuclear from rooftops for the medium/long term

Shank Williams · 28-08-2022 10:31pm

Degrowth was the only way out of this- but we needed to be looking at it in the 60s

renewables can’t save us now- not can business as usual- climate change isn’t even the main problem- ecological overshoot is- too many people extracting more resources and creating more pollution than the biosphere can take hence it is breaking down .

the dishonesty in the whole discussion is crazy- the amount of pure scientific illiteracy on display is unreal (eg solutions being proposed that ignore the laws of physics)

to be fair I can understand people wanting to just go into denial about it all it’s grim

Akrasia · 29-08-2022 8:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534600#Comment_119534600

You're saying that as we look at gas shortages this winter. Gas seemingly does require a backup it seems.

Every power source requires backup if you want a reliable grid.

EOQRTL · 29-08-2022 9:07am

The Greens are going to become a total and utter irrelevance when the crisis hits home the next few winters. Businesses beginning to suffer hugely already and it's still summer time. 😥

ps200306 · 29-08-2022 9:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534516#Comment_119534516

"Fossil fuel interests are successfully implanting the ideas into your brain that solution to a volatile gas market. Is to invest more heavily in gas infrastructure"

Unfortunately, when you've ruled out the "solutions" that can't work (i.e. wind), you're have to go with those that can, no matter how expensive.

ps200306 · 29-08-2022 9:19am

I'm no Trump fan, but I have to admit the following gave me a chuckle given how badly it has aged:

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1044740334306058241

Pa ElGrande · 29-08-2022 9:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535023#Comment_119535023

The question I always ask people who promote this view, whose grandchild are you trying to prevent from being born? Yours or mine?

1960s . . . maybe you can show us your Club of Rome membership card. That aside degrowth is a euphemism for eco-socialism, its an idea that emerged with the collapse of communist bloc in the 1980s. It is currently en vogue among the NGOs (especially Friends of the Earth) and universities (masked as sustainable development studies.) in Ireland who promote it as a means of using less energy to adapt peoples lives to a post-fossil fuel world, and beyond the economic system we know today. Or, if you prefer, planned collapse (of fossil capitalism) to avoid a disastrous unplanned societal collapse as they view our economic system as no longer viable and the alternative is . . eco-socialism. You won't be surprised to find Paul Murphy involved.

Not all the activists and leftist green politicians are onboard with degrowth, they sell themselves as something can be done, absolution for your eco sins is possible, heaven can be reached here on earth, therefore they should rule and we should pay more tax to maintain a static climate. . . besides visions of an inevitable apocalypse are bad for votes and funding when you are pushing hopium that the world energy systems can be powered on wind turbines, solar panels and green hydrogen (forgetting to mention this needs waste electricity and clean water). Degrowth can be viewed as a schism in the environmental religion.

KildareP · 29-08-2022 9:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534516#Comment_119534516

I don't think the fossil fuel industry are quaking in their boots just yet! Renewables aren't even remotely a threat to fossil fuel dominance simply because they don't come anywhere close to being able to replace the capability they currently provide.

The main concepts are

1. Big interconnected super grids build resilience

Not unless each country invests in significant over production of energy.

One country's demand can only be met through another's excess. We're in prime territory to capture wind, relatively speaking to much of continental Europe, which means our main opportunity is to be net exporters of wind energy to Europe. That's simply not going to happen if we can't even meet our own electrical demand through renewables.

If we're going to bank on it being able to import vast amounts of energy as well, well then where does that excess of generation capacity exist? Who in Europe will have the excess to give and how do we know when we have a shortfall that they're not also going to have one too? Who gets priority?

If nuclear in Ireland is instantly shot down over arguments around cost, are we expecting someone else to do it for us and somehow do it cheaper?

If not nuclear, well how are other countries on this grid going to provide us with our energy if we can't, given our favourable location for wind?

And when there's a squeeze, who gets precedence? If I'm an Irish wind generator, should I have to supply energy to Ireland first, and then offer excess abroad? Or should I be entitled to offer my energy at market rates, and if someone from Germany is prepared to pay more, they get it instead on a highest bidder wins basis?

2. Storage, even short term, allows time to switch on backups and completely eliminate peaker gas turbines reducing our reliance on fossil fuels significantly

No such storage exists at anywhere near the scale required to be able to do this. Our current BESS and hydro solutions can provide a few hundred megawatts of output for anything up to about 4 hours before they're spent, to meet a grid demand of several gigawatts for much of the weekday hours.

The other side of it is storage again requires more than an equal excess of generation. If you need to able to store 24 hours worth of demand, then you need 48 hours worth of generation so that you can refill that storage from empty within 24 hours. If you need 30 days of storage, well then you need orders of excess of generation to be able to refill it after a period of extended use such as a long, calm, windless spell, which typically tend to coincide with our peaks in heat in Summer and cold in Winter, which is also when demand tends to be higher than usual.

3. Local power generation and storage on the domestic or municipal scale adds resilience

Sorry but this is just buzzwords. No-one has ever produced a grid that can operate at scale, with hundreds of thousand of microgenerators, that can consistently meet demand and remain stable within normal parameters of voltage and frequency. While I'm sure it will someday, it's not going to solve our problems in the immediate future.

4. Increasing efficiency can reduce demand

Again, meaningless. Our current electrical efficiency is quite high. The next stage of our overall efficiency is to transition other fossil fuel systems like heating and transport over to electricity but these are net additions to the electrical demand which will just further compound our current generation shortfall issue, the exact opposite of reducing demand.

5. Storage means peak demand disappears. Energy demand can be divorced from generation capacity. In the same way we don't just get to drink water when it's raining, we can store energy when it's abundant and consume it when we need it.

When someone has cracked being able to store weeks or months worth of energy the same way we can store weeks or months worth of potent water, then we'll talk. Because as I mentioned above, no-one has managed to crack such a feat today. Not even come close.

Furze99 · 29-08-2022 10:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535023#Comment_119535023

The Growth Illusion - Richard Douthwaite

"Green" policies are destroying this country

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