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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Jesus it came back to schools. That was a move out of left field I have to admit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Knowing VDF is currently significantly better than Connors doesn't require any "inside" knowledge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Didn't see this coming. Very interesting idea.

    Hopefully the internationals are back for the provinces, otherwise they could struggle to field competitive teams.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    In fairness they are certainly going a different direction in this cycle. The extra two games in NZ and now this.

    it looks to be a good thing it’s not so much the standard of opposition but more about being in the camp and I suppose not being the bag holders.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I approve of the idea in principle, but it could be insanely disruptive for Ulster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    It will be interesting to see who they take at 10. If it's Frawley, it disproves people's theory that he only played there in the summer due to injuries (even though they could have called out R.Byrne/Burns instead of McCloskey for the 2nd Maori game) and shows he is seen as an option there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Despite the opposition, working and training as a group. Will be invaluable to them. It will also probably have a positive impact on those players when they return to their provinces. Short term pain, long term gain. Certainly a very different approach this time from Farrell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    But McCloskey didn't replace Harry Byrne, he replaced Hume. H Byrne was back in training and they were still hoping he'd play the second game.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Intensely dislike the idea. Its either going to be insanely disruptive for the provinces or involve such fringe players that it is irrelevant in the context of the world cup and it takes a big steaming dump on the new URC just as its finally starting to find its feet.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    H.Byrne did his other hamstring after the 1st Maori game and before McCloskey was called out I'm pretty sure.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I'm not a fan of it.

    There's 7 games in the URC before a month off in November and the players going on that tour will miss 3 of them, possibly even 4.

    The tour is to assemble on the 23 Sep, a Friday, and by the time they get back the Leinster and Connacht players won't be doing any training for their game on Fri 14.

    If any of the other countries did this I'd be pissed too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Possible squad?

    Loosehead: Jeremy Loughman, Edward Byrne

    Hooker: Niall Scannell, Dave Heffernan, Diarmuid Barron

    Tighthead: Tom O'Toole, Thomas Clarkson, Keynan Knox

    Lock: Kieran Treadwell, Joe McCarthy, Ryan Baird, Thomas Ahern

    Blindside: Cian Prendergast

    Openside: Nick Timoney, Will Connors

    No. 8: Gavin Coombes, Max Deegan

    Scrumhalf: Craig Casey, Nathan Doak, Caolin Blade

    Outhalf: Ciarán Frawley, Harry Byrne, Ben Healy

    Left Wing: Jacob Stockdale

    Inside Centre: Stuart McCloskey, Chris Farrell

    Outside Centre: James Hume, Jamie Osborne

    Right Wing: Robert Baloucoune, Jordan Larmour

    Fullback: Jimmy O'Brien, Michael Lowry

    That's 32

    some others who'd be in the mix: Peter Dooley, Josh Wycherley, Andrew Warwick, John McKee, Jack Aungier, Dominic Robertson-McCoy, Gavin Thornbury, Jean Kleyn, Niall Murray, Fineen Wycherley, Alexis Soroka, Scott Penny, Alex Kendellen, Kieran Marmion, Cormac Foley, Jack Carty, Jack Crowley, Stewart Moore, Shane Daly, Simon Zebo



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    How will playing against Currie Cup sides better "prepare" players for a big World Cup game than playing for their province in the URC?

    I also don't think our squad depth was even in our top 5 biggest problems at the last world cup.

    If we really want to "build depth", we should leave out the old heads against South Africa and Australia in November.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    You're placing too much emphasis on who the opposition are. It's important for players to get used to fitting in to Ireland's systems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Gotta hand it to Faz, he doesn't shy away from work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Each of the provinces play to very similar patterns and shapes to Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    On some levels they do. Most teams in the world use pods, and so on. But it's an opportunity for players to get up to speed with exactly what the different Ireland coaches expect from them. It's about everyone singing off the same hymn sheet in attack and having as much cohesion as possible in defence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Pretty close I think, yeah. Might want Henderson in.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Not sure how much of a fan I am of this, tbh; there’s 2 interpro’s on during this tour,I think there’s a case that the players could benefit more from being involved in them.

    You have to hand it for Farrell tho, he isn’t afraid of trying something different.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    It's a fair argument. But I'd be skeptical of just how much playing against Currie Cup sides will translate to performance on literally the biggest stage of rugby.

    Like, say Sexton and Carbery both go down injured at the WC (which is a distinct possibility), will we really be saying "we're grand against France in this quarter final because Frawley looked sh*t hot against Griquas last year"? No, we won't.

    Play the fringe guys against SA and Aus. That will actually prepare them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    We have a horde of lads who "can't get a fair shot", this should help on that front anyway.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is very clearly (at least for anyone paying the least bit of attention) a premeditated attempt to destroy Tommy O'Donnell's confidence.

    The All Black attack coach should hang his head in shame.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    Probably a more likely case might be for a 3rd or 4th choice prop or hooker who gets elevated to a bench role in a crucial RWC game might be more familiar and trusted in the Farrell system to give a solid 15 minutes off the bench.

    We're probably fecked at this stage if anything happens to Sexton and Carberry, too much investment in both of them and next to nothing in everyone else over the past 3 years.

    It's not ideal to call this tour but if the IRFU are insisting on first team selections in November then it's better than nothing for the coaches to have significant time with the backups and future players.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Exactly - When Ed Byrne was called to New Zealand recently people were complaining that someone like Josh Wycherley wasn't called instead.

    At the time it was pointed out that Wycherley had never been near an Ireland camp and it would have been very difficult for him to slot in mid-tour without knowing calls etc. etc.

    This kind of tour expands that coverage so that a decent number of players that might get drafted into a squad have exposure to processes and calls etc..

    Also , it might produce a few bolters for the November series which is even better.

    Having said that , if they are taking 30+ players out of the provinces for 2 weeks then all the Internationals need to be made available to the clubs for those games.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Irelands biggest findings from the last few world cups have been lack of depth - something that multiple people here frequently attest to about numerous positions.

    The rule of thumb appears to be to be in genuine contention to win at the highest level you need a squad that is 3 deep in every position.

    This doesn't have to mean "3 very good players who represent their province to the highest degree" it means 3 players who can fill in without a significant drop in performance.

    As a result I don't buy in to "oh but they play for their provinces every week" or "they play similar styles of rugby" etc etc.

    What we need for a 3 deep squad is players that are in the system, know the calls, know their roles, know the ethos, know every minute detail that us on the internet couldn't possibly comprehend or account for.

    World Cup squads are 33 man. Meaning it's mathematically impossible to have appropriate cover in every position. So we're putting in place a process whereby players are properly equipped to come into the squad at a days notice and have no bedding in period. Or at least to minimize it.

    We're mitigating against the fine margins that exist at the top.

    This tour is a good thing for Ireland and people who don't think so I feel are being too short sighted. Or their priorities are with their province. Which is fair



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    My priorities are not with the provinces, I have concerns about the further undermining of a club/provincial tournament across 5 countries. The URC is important and this is just pointlessly causing it damage.

    You want them to learn calls etc you can do that in camps in Ireland. We already give the international coaches more access to the players than most other countries could dream of. They will learn nothing playing games against utterly woeful South African sides so that element of the whole thing is just pointless.

    Irelands biggest findings from the last few world cups have been lack of depth

    Also this just isn't true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I wonder if Farrell will be bringing 30 candidates who he is seriously looking at.


    He might also be bringing 10-15 candidates he is seriously looking at and fill the squad out with young guns that would be in a provincial A squad if it had some competition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,681 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    IRFU wont be shelling out for this unless there is benefits to it. AF won't be putting it together unless he sees benefits to it.

    With no tour next summer, its a chance to bring guys a level down on a tour, away from home to get them acquainted with life in Ireland camp under the current coach, something many of those going might not have experienced previously.


    Just because you don't see the benefit doesnt mean its pointless



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    The IRFU and Andy Farrell are not omnipotent demigods. I doubt they do anything they don't see a reason for - they are regularly incorrect (as am I obviously). Also supposedly Farrell is not even going.

    This is not happening in a vacuum, it is an absolute slap in the face to the URC in what should be its first uninterrupted season. It shows contempt to a competition that had been injected with something akin to a new lease of life with the South African Super Rugby teams. It was refreshing to see the enthusiasm and joy that the Stormers showed in winning the competition, but now we have the IRFU reinforcing the idea that its actually something they don't care about at all.



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