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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Side issue no longer to make these profits is a complete flight from the market. Or are we suggesting they will still run them on a breadline. Games up it seems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    From: https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0829/1319422-energy-emergency/

    On Friday, Germany and France reported record electricity prices, with the German year-ahead contract jumping to €995 per megawatt hours, while the French equivalent soared past €1,100 - compared to €85 in both countries last year.

    Take €1,100 and divide by the €85 you get 12.95 or 13X rounded. The 14X was probably a tad overestimated, but 13X is an alarming increase.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Where have you been the last few weeks. Fossil fuel companies do not need to use PR to demonise renewables to sell their product. Renewables have shown just how undependable they are and that fossil fuels will be needed for a long time to come. Did you not say not long ago that fossil fuel companies were investing in renewables, so why would they wish to demonise their own investment ?

    If fossil fuel companies are demonising any energy source then would it not make sense for them to be doing so for nuclear. More countries investing in nuclear would have a much more major effect on their market in the medium and long term than renewables. But then perhaps they are, which would be ironic as it would have them in bed with greens.

    The only present decision to solve the crisis here on electrical supply is to burn more gas because we have painted ourselves into the same corner as Germany by shutting or downgrading every other source hoping that renewables would compensate and they have not because they are intermittent and unreliable. We can point at others in the past for ignoring warnings, but the situation we are facing is a direct result of green policy. A policy that now has us even more reliant on an insecure gas supply and one that Irish Green Party policy has added to with the banning of exploration, hand sitting and attempting to ban LNG where there is a European shortage of gas.

    Two of the worlds largest CO2 emitters, China and India, are now also taking advantage of the European crisis purchasing Russian oil at discounted prices. Driving our economy into the ground is not going to make one iota of difference to global emission. No more than cutting our cattle numbers will. Nobody is interested in Ryan`s idea that they will somehow blindly follow our example and do the same. I doubt they even notice our "example" but if they do it`s more for the sake of a good laugh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    They can still make reasonable profits. Or else, semi states should invest and the public will own the assets



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    There are lots of moving parts between the year ahead prices and consumer bills



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So your solution is to throw money at the problem without the slightest idea how much it will cost or even if it would work.

    There are a few lads and lassies around I imagine who in hindsight look back at similar ideas of their own in the past that are now glad their bank manager saved them from themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Lol what's reasonable to a company that's been making huge profits. People seem to assume all the cost is covered on these reasonable profits. replacing blades. Retrofitting them with a material that stops rain damage all cost money. Then you have the actual price of maintenance of the turbine. Wheels coming off now. Going to be a very very large Green flight from this. If it had be done in the right way there would have been no money in it for vested interests. Whole thing stinks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Science-Fiction at this stage.

    Now the reality for this and say the next 10 winters is going to be what?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Give it another month, two at max and 14 would look pretty good...



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I asked 'how much does inaction cost?'

    'A stitch in time saved nine'

    If we had invested in our grid 10 years ago we would be in a much better place today.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Politicians across Europe are panicking and ensuring that coal plants are being reopened and stocked across the continent. Meanwhile commentary from India highlights the sanctimonious hypocrisy of their double standards after the recent COP26. She does illustrate very well the resurgence of coal in Europe. However, there is another side to this, India avoids criticism because it’s an “emerging and developing country” and it is both a producer of coal and the world’s second-largest importer. India does buy oil from Russia, refines it then sells it on to Europe, they are laughing all the way to the bank on this occasion profiting from said hypocrisy.

    When it comes to long term impoverishment our legislators are virtuous, banning new oil & gas development, banning LNG storage, banning fracking, banning nuclear. Our local energy economy is tanking because of decisions taken over energy policy in the past ten years. Our current overseers are less brave about decisions to impoverish right here and now. Hence the panicked tilt to coal. If the Ukraine crisis resolved overnight, and they got Russian gas back they’d double down on the Green madness in an instant, but, we’ll pay for it over the course of the next ten years and by that time the ejiits who enacted these policies will have moved on or be drawing down their index linked pensions.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Political classes should be strung up by their balls for this one lads I'm thinking. If it gets as serious as predicted. And rightly so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The ESB is a semi state I believe and a semi state that has consistently charged on the high side for it's supply over the years. Very well remunerated staff, probably the best gig of all the state bodies. So not sure that state monopiles running energy production or anything else for that matter is that great either.

    I agree with you more than not and it's no harm to develop renewables on the proviso that they are carefully sited and don't wreck our natural environment. However we all know they are not the full solution in themselves and storage of excess capacity is a complex problem with dirty solutions. If we're not prepared to have a small nuclear plant ourselves we need permanent political stability and interconnectors with states that do have nuclear. Otherwise we're screwed and have little leverage in times of crisis. Our geography in relation to the rest of Europe leaves us exposed.

    I am very dubious, very dubious about the standard current green tech mantra to power everything with batteries. Again we see that battery production & disposal is a dirty business, as bad and worse that other extractive industries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    As for the likes of China & India etc and their pollution/ carbon emissions - maybe we need to ease off a bit in our plans and let them suffer a bit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If we had invested in nuclear 10 years ago we would be in an even better place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    In a fit of virtue signalling back in the late 90s, we banned nuclear bomb testing which we are never going to do anyway, and also the production of electricity for the Irish national grid (Eirgrid), by nuclear fission, is prohibited in the Republic of Ireland by the Electricity Regulation Act, 1999. About 1% of the electrical power consumed in a year is generated by nuclear fission, so in principle we have have no issue using nuclear generated electrical power.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Sure are, carbon taxes being one part that adds nothing but financial pain for the consumer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    "Climate change is happening faster than predicted and time is running out faster"

    Do you genuinely believe that?

    Or, do you want to believe it so that it confirms your beliefs?

    Can you point to reliable and unbiased evidence that "climate change is happening faster than predicted"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Nothing Ireland does is going to affect Pakistan one way or another.

    The consequences of inaction get worse and worse the longer we delay action. If you don't agree, ask the 30 million Pakistani people who's entire world's are currently being washed away.

    In 10 years, that could be 300 million displaced people.

    If you don't want a billion displaced people by 2050, we need to demand action now.

    Do you just pluck these numbers out of your ass? You just ignore requests to provide historical trends for droughts, floods, etc. Pakistan has had lots of historical floods which, adjusted for population size, have killed or displaced more people. Meanwhile, millions of people are killed by the burning of biomass every year that could be saved by the use of fossil fuels. You need to understand that just screaming "billions will die" is neither true, nor a useful way to galvanise support for your cause. Green fanatics run the risk that they're just going to be dismissed as a pack of screaming loonies when people wake up and realise that their "solutions" are just about the worst way to address the world's problems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    ER blaming the war for all the issues facing the Irish electricity market on oireachtas tv now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    what are you going to do about the toxic waste thats left when you try to recycle solar panels? Or how about when the turbines needs to be replaced - you realise they bury the blades? These things being claimed as being good for our environment - like electric car batteries and the resources computers and cars use - but clearly arent



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    and just forget the nuclear waste thats generated? or i know - just dump it at sea and no-one will notice!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    ER says we need laser focus to deliver 1000MW of backup flexible gas for when the wind doesn’t blow.

    Some posters on here want to get rid of gas asap………..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    COP27 and COP15 (biodiversity) are going to be very important this year that’s for sure. I think that there will be an acceptance from delegates that we must hold the course on emissions reductions, and green energy, and that the focus should be on providing financial support to mitigate the impacts of the energy security issues.

    I very much hope that the frameworks and the legal commitments put in place are not watered down and I’ll be watching it keenly



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    The greens are idiots, I heard some green this morning on newstalk saying the international electricity price should be bound to the cost of renewables and not gas as renewables are the dominant generator of energy in the EU now. I don't know what he was smoking but it must be good. Away with the fairies



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Encouraging people to buy electric cars needs to put on the backburner for the foreseeable imo. The system is going to be on the verge of collapse this winter the last thing we need is more pressure on top of that also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Seems to be a lot of blame that the extra gas generators didn’t come online due to not getting planning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    This is getting interesting.

    Cormac devlin asking about Irish gas storage and how much we have, can we rely on Moffat, and has ER met with the indigenous fossil fuel industry since coming to power.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,372 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭ginger22


    the trouble is while ER is dithering lots of small businesses will go under this winter with the increased energy costs and reduced consumer spending on top of the warehoused debt from the covid fiasco.



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