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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Its worse than that. The towers that support the turbines have large concrete and steel foundations that are designed to handle the load and stress conditions applied to the turbines. You can't put in larger turbines without the foundations designed to take the load, the next generation turbines which tend to be larger require new foundations to be laid, what happens to the concrete and steel already in the ground after 20 to 30 years? there is quite a bit of infrastructure to be laid down to get these things operational. Turbines also need regular maintenance and repairs, I often see them replacing blades that have worn after 8 years.



    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭ginger22


    mad the environmental damage done to get those wind turbines installed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So there seems to be a plan to get 2GW of gas generation backup, that is the emergency backup?

    Seems to be what ER is talking about in this joint committee meeting.

    I think the plan is to get this 2GW onto the system before winter? Surely that’s impossible?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    ER sticking to his guns regarding not handing out new fossil fuel exploration licences- when asked about barryroe in particular. He also said all contractors get a thorough look over to see if existing applications would be handed out.

    ER waiting on fossil fuel infrastructure report but doesn’t see any storage being built or kinsale being used as a storage cavern.

    Question on LNG was asked but my stream broke up for a while- I only caught the end with ER saying something would cost tens of millions and take years to build- not sure if he was on about the terminal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There are what, around 70 data center that are using more electricity than all the rural dwellings in the country ?

    If that is correct then on average each center uses the same as around 9,000 homes. That would require a lot of batteries and panel to supply them for a prolonged period.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Dumping of nuclear waste at sea has been banned internationally for the past 30 years



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I do not see why the greens have an issue with nuclear either. Eamon Ryan was talking it up a storm last year where if we ran short we could get it via the interconnector to France. Even though that interconnector did not even have planning permission until this year and won`t have anything coming via it for the next 5 years. The U.K. interconnectors are supplying it here, so it looks like just more hypocrisy from green.

    Terrible stuff until you need it and when you do interconnectors magically wash it clean.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,051 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    If I had to guess I'd say most green party supporters are also in favour of nuclear. Going anti-nuclear is likely their attempt to target more FFG voters



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    i was disappointed no one asked ER if Russia hadn’t of invaded Ukraine would we be in this mess now?

    Ryan was allowed blame the war, but in reality if we lost Moffat due to a technical reason and this coincided with low wind- we’d be in the same blackout mess.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I know I get tired of hearing the same thing from them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    Energy Independence (or have a variety of options) is crucial for any country, to be truly free!

    An LNG port is essential if we are going to have alternatives to market fluctuations caused by a threat to the Russian gas supply. Having extra capacity, for emergencies, either solid fossil fuel or extra gas generators (easily to turn off and on) should be an obligation for the energy companies.

    Fracking in as environmentally friendly a way as possible, in the north midlands and in the North, needs to be revisited, it is just virtue signalling if we buy gas from or through the UK which is fracked, and dont harvest our own gas from fracking. And explore more off-shore gas fields which must be more economically viable with the present prices.

    If the government can not guarantee 100% gas and electricity supply, they can not ban you from harvesting turf!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If the government can not guarantee 100% gas and electricity supply, they can not ban you from harvesting turf!

    There is no such ban or prospect of such a ban (more's the pity)

    Fracking in as environmentally friendly a way as possible

    No such thing afaik

    An LNG port is essential if we are going to have alternatives to market fluctuations caused by a threat to the Russian gas supply. Having extra capacity, for emergencies, either solid fossil fuel or extra gas generators (easily to turn off and on) should be an obligation for the energy companies.

    This I don't get and I'm quoting you on this but its not directed at you, just this line in general from several posters.

    If the costs of our energy are going through the roof because of price increases in fossil fuels, why on earth would you want to further solidify the hold on our grid for those fuels. Seems illogical to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Any mention of why they did not get planning permission or who objected ?

    Be interesting to see if this outfit that has morphed from protecting Ireland`s natural and built heritage into full time green warriors on behalf of the green were involved, or that other limited company Friends of the Irish Environment. It would be comical if they were.




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If that is their plan then they would be best advised to look to their own support base first.

    The largest percentage of their vote in GE 2020 came from the 18 - 24 year age group. A recent survey by Think Ireland found that 60% of that age group were in favour of nuclear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    From what I heard it was to do with the Enviromental impact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    COP won't matter, the optics are not good, imagine all the private planes flying into a warm sunny resort, while much of the population in Western Europe is trying to keep warm and pay the electricity and gas bills. The first COP was held in Germany hosted by Angela Merkel who was minister for the environment at the time. The Germans thought they were on a winner being able to close all the inefficient East German industries and claim CO2 reduction.

    Fast forward to 2022/23 and an imploding German economy driven by the pursuit of Energiewende over the past decade combined with the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a different story. Should the German economy go down, all things green are dead in the water, especially given the profile of the German Greens across Europe. There has been one major failure for Green policies in Sri Lanka when their Government banned fertiliser, and now the islands population are struggling with food shortages. Imagine what happens when German industry can't produce, that will affect us in Ireland directly.

    Can you imagine how to control a population that has to trade off buying food and staying warm? Imagine the pent up anger, and if you get rolling blackouts there will also be looting and riots (no power, no security cameras, no mobile phone tracking, very limited surveillance).

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    Gas is efficient since it is easily turned off and on able (as the ad said). Gas is needed to complement renewables, it can scale up when the wind is not blowing (or tide, etc is not producing enough). You can also use bio-mass. Carbon catching can be used to mitigate against pollution.

    The gas infrastructure is there, and many homes depend on it, if the price goes through the roof, they will source solid fuels to burn and heat their homes much more environmentally unfriendly.

    Exploit our natural resources of gas in the Atlantic and fracked gas. It is a false virtue if we are going to be importing 90% of our gas from the UK (Scotland) in a few years, bad for our balance of payments, and should Brexit trade wars happen we would be in the lurch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Gas is needed to complement renewables, it can scale up when the wind is not blowing (or tide, etc is not producing enough).

    No argument there, it has a purpose during the transition

    Carbon catching can be used to mitigate against pollution.

    You are referring to CCS? Yeah that's nothing more than snake oil unfortunately.

    Exploit our natural resources of gas in the Atlantic and fracked gas. It is a false virtue if we are going to be importing 90% of our gas from the UK (Scotland) in a few years, bad for our balance of payments, and should Brexit trade wars happen we would be in the lurch.

    All the more reason to increasing the rate of transition to reduce that risk



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Thought for the night:

    Wind and solar aren’t viable until we crack green storage.

    Goodnight.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    All the Russian invasion has done is bought forward the time lines in which wide spread power outages would have happened. The plan is shut down Tarbert and Moneypoint, after 2025 there would be no turning back Corrib would be in decline, if you look at Eirgrids projections the reserve generating capacity would be reduced while demand management would be doubled. Imagine the Russians had waited until the end of the decade - what then? no reserve power generation, and complete dependency on gas from a single source, and the greatest demand ever on electricity generation. It you think inter-connectors and a super-grid would have come to the rescue, lets introduce energy nationalism to the equation.

    This is 2022, this graph says future supply has hit a wall. The last time I saw a graph like this was back around the Chinese Olympics in 2008, when they accelerated production in advance of a shut-down and drove the demand for oil sky high. The price dropped afterwards due to demand destruction caused by the North Atlantic bust. This time round there is the possibility of a sovereign debt crisis in Europe on the back of this. It goes like this, significant parts of European industry shut down in the face of inflation and supply shortages, unemployment rises and taxes fall, balance of trade is out of kilter due to the energy prices. That demand destruction will bring down prices, but it also means an economic depression.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    There was a notorious poster here who kept saying the EU should drop the marginal pricing policy and like clockwork the rest of the crew “liked” the post each and every time is was made. Now that the EU is seemingly looking at this the crew are saying it’s impossible. There is no point arguing with posters who are only posting here to be anti Green Party for political reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    That's what anyone with a brain has been saying for the last year in here but a lot in here reckon the wind blows and the sun shines and were all in clover forever . Technology for green storage is years away and we will be totally reliant on gas etc until a proper solution is found. The problem is the greens will have us bankrupt by the time it's found



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,051 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yeah and that got them the grand total of 11 seats at that general election, they want a slice of the FFG voters pie and that's why they won't change their policy on that matter

    Next GE their supporter base will crucify them on their housing record so it doesn't matter what they'll do between then and now



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Where on here have you seen "this crew" saying it`s impossible to drop the marginal pricing policy. ?

    If dropping the marginal pricing policy within the E.U. is going to be opposed, it`s going to be opposed by "the crew" you support.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Well then get on with it!!!!


    You green lads are constantly asleep at the wheel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Well if that is the plan, it`s not going well. They had 7.1% of the vote in 2020, they are now at 3% and will have problems holding seats they got in 2020 due to SF not running enough candidates as well.

    I really haven`t heard the Greens saying much about housing, so on that basis it doesn`t seem like a vote gamechanger to me.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    "You are referring to CCS? Yeah that's nothing more than snake oil unfortunately."

    100% CCS with the Allam Cycle has been demonstrated, has put electricity on the grid, and is currently in planning for deployment at four 300 MW commercial plants in the US and UK.



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