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GAA need to step up

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Choochtown



    What a strange contradictory article.

    He claims (correctly) that the GAA is non-political when he states that "I have never heard such conversations at my own clubs where my family and I have played and mentored for generations"

    and then later he calls on the GAA to "confine themselves" to promoting their games.

    Another baseless attack on the GAA only at least this time the perpetrator admits he's talking bolllix before he talks it!



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,524 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Off topic posts deleted



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Here is a decent piece from Tom Elliot again being fairly clear why the GAA cannot be regarded as inclusive….

    𝐌𝐲 𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐩𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐅𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐤 𝐌𝐢𝐭𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐥𝐥'𝐬 𝐚𝐫𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐥𝐞 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐆𝐀𝐀

    I read Frank Mitchell’s defence of the GAA in Saturday’s Belfast Telegraph Weekend magazine. I have no wish to get involved in the East Belfast debate, but it is important to balance the view that is often portrayed of the GAA as an organisation where everyone is welcome.

    While I understand Frank’s views on the GAA from a sporting organisation it cannot be isolated from the organisation’s political perspective.

    I have the greatest of respect for many who play GAA as they see it as a sporting institution. 

    However the reality of the GAA organisation is much different. For years I and everyone who was a member of the Northern Ireland security services were banned by the GAA to be a member or part of their organisation.

    Even now under the GAA main aim and one of the GAA rule’s state:

    ‘the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.’

    ‘Membership of the Association shall be granted only by a Club, to persons who subscribe to and undertake to further the aims and objects of the Gaelic Athletic Association, as stated in the Official Guide’

    Therefore I believe that someone from the Unionist community could not be accepted for membership of the organisation as Unionists cannot subscribe to the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland.  

    There are of course a long list of links between the GAA and militant Irish Republicanism, including IRA murderers. At least the Ulster GAA Chief Executive Brian McEvoy has been honest enough to admit that it is not just a sporting organisation, that it has a much wider remit, a fact that is highlighted by its aims and rules, which broadly makes it a strong political advocate.

    Even in recent times we have witnessed members of GAA teams shouting and chanting pro IRA slogans when passing events from a unionist tradition, we often witness pro IRA singing and chanting by GAA team competition winners.

    The institution continues its practice of flying the Irish Tricolour and signing the Republic of Ireland National Anthem at matches, even in Northern Ireland. Can you imagine the uproar if it was insisted that the Union Fly and UK National Anthem be played at all NIFL League football matches or Ulster Rugby Championship games, it wouldn’t be accepted or tolerated, but the GAA continue their tradition of anti-unionist traditions.

    Indeed we are aware of those from a Protestant, even though mixed marriage background that have suffered terrible intimidation and bullying when they were part of the GAA setup, this has been witnessed in a number of areas including Fermanagh and Cavan, the latter which ended with tragic circumstances.

    I acknowledge and applaud the volunteer spirit and commitment of the GAA; I also accept that many of those playing the sport are involved for the sport and not the institution’s wider political connotations. 

    It may have a very small number of participants from a unionist or protestant background, it may have provided a setting for a Muslim celebration, but the reality is that the GAA is an organisation that is designed to promote an Irish Nationalist/ Republican agenda, its rules and constitution at the very least discourage anyone from a unionist viewpoint from being part of the organisation and the vast majority of its history and actions consolidate that view, with pro-Irish Nationalist/Republican and anti-Unionist/Protestant activities.

    While I accept the right to promote the sporting and volunteer nature of the GAA, please stop trying to dress it up as an organisation for all – Because that it certainly is not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Tom might want to look at why the security forces were barred from joining.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Irish sport in promoting Irish culture shocker..... Tom Elliot is a shining example of the old adage, 'an empty vessel makes the most noise'. Great man for weighing in on anything themmuns and ne'er a word when it's on his side. Painfully aware of him on a personal level from my years in Fermanagh.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    A heavy dose of ‘shoot the messenger’ in above two posts. The bottom line is the GAA rule book says I cannot join, just the same as the orange rule book says you cannot join the OO. Two exclusive organisations. One is honest about it and the other lives in denial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Go ahead and quote the rule which prohibits you from joining there, Downcow.

    ‘Membership of the Association shall be granted only by a Club, to persons who subscribe to and undertake to further the aims and objects of the Gaelic Athletic Association, as stated in the Official Guide’ certainly isn't a prohibition of people from a Unionist background and Rule 21 has been gone for over 20 years.

    Jaysus if we're going to let how things were 20 years ago be an indictment on the current state of affairs, your beloved NI soccer team doesn't come out looking too hot.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nowhere deos gaa rulebook (nor the orange order) say this,I know of people whom membership is of both


    Your blowing smoke mate



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Here you go.

    GAA aim:

    “the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.’”

    I must subscribe to that anti-unionist position to be accepted as a member. I absolutely can’t.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Absolutely incorrect, you CHOOSE to find those mutually exclusive. I don't find it in any way difficult to understand how someone would wish to support the strengthening of the Ulster Scots identity while supporting Unification, nor do I find it difficult to understand how someone may wish to remain part of your United Kingdom while also wishing to preserve and protect the Irish identity that is still inherently part of that.

    Much like I don't wish to see the Ulster Scots people and culture wiped out should Unification occur, I fully understand how someone who wishes to preserve your Union would wish to preserve and protect such an inherent part of our shared history.

    Try again, Downcow.....this time without your own prejudice and hatred towards anything Irish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I’m not sure why you are struggling to understand.

    to be a member of the GAA I must “the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland”. Spin that any way you want, but it clearly says that I should be strengthening the ‘National Identity’ in County Down. And we all know this refers to Irish national identity.

    the national identity I want to promote in Co Down is UK national identity.

    therefore I cannot have integrity and join the GAA. And my local club could not have integrity and allow me to join.

    simple. Same as OO only OO is honest about their exclusion



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    It is perfectly feasible to be a Unionist and also support one's Irish identity and culture. I'd be hard pressed to tell Ian Paisley that he wasn't a Unionist.

    Your hatred of anything Irish is entirely separate from your Unionism. Your inability to separate them isn't the GAA's issue, it is yours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    In general you are correct about being a unionist but also supporting one's Irish identity.

    However, if anything, the Irish identity is becoming more exclusionary as the decades go by.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I'd disagree very heavily with you, Blanch. There's a few getting more insular and more exclusionary, but the average person with an Irish identity and culture is much more accepting than 30+ years ago.

    Trying to view the norm through the lens of those of us who engage in online discussion is a fools errand. I don't think myself, yourself or Downcow are in any way representative of the average person. Whether we like to admit it or not, we're all suffering from a bit of entrenchment albeit from three differing positions. Whether you realise it or not, your own position is just as exclusionary as that you castigate so heavily; you're so determined to avoid doing anything that doesn't include everyone that you're willing to exclude majority opinions seeking an unachievable pipe dream.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What I mean by that is that you get an increasing cohort who suggest that you're not really Irish unless you speak the language etc. That is very different to the concept of Irishness that Paisley thought he could belong to.

    I am talking about this experience from real life, not from on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    My grasp of the language is piss poor, Blanch. Growing up in the NI education system, we could have an entire discussion about why that is.....and a whole other one about why I didn't go further on my own graw.......but I could count on my fingers the number of people who have tried to diminish my Irishness because of it. I'd very comfortably argue that the cohort you're talking about is smaller now than at any time in our lifetimes.

    Given that the average person you're usually trying to accuse of, 'exclusionary nationalism' has an even worse standard than I do, I suspect you may be overblowing this issue.

    I do also note you completely dodged addressing your own exclusionary nationalism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am not a fervent nationalist, therefore I can't by definition be an exclusionary nationalist. You may accuse me of being exclusionary something else if you wish, but not an exclusionary nationalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    it says National Identity - A very different thing to Irish identity. The fact you needed to change it says it all



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    And yet plenty of people from a Unionist background don't feel that it prevents them from being part of the GAA. You can moan all you want, fact is it is your problem Downcow, not the organisation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Fionn the fact you felt the need to spin it from ‘national identity’ to ‘Irish identity’ is a bit of a giveaway to what you truly think - no matter what you pretend to think.

    if it said ‘Irish identity’ then certainly any unionists who felt Irish could join with integrity, but it doesn’t say Irish identity. Either way it still rules me out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Rules you out, doesn't rule all Unionists out and CERTAINLY doesn't rule all Protestants out. How does that look beside your precious Orange Order you keep trying to draw increasingly desperate comparisons to.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A neighbor of mine goes up north every July (well mainly his ould lad) for marches,he trains u15 in the local club


    The notion you can't be a member of orange order and GAA is simply without credence,the notion you can be in orange order and not speak Irish is also without credence.....the only one,painting emselves out in any scenario is yous,and yous alone


    It's weak political leadership,saying you can't do X,instead of empowering it's supporters to doX,is the problem with unionism,they are deliberately keeping yous downtrodden to sap confidence form community to prevent any progressive voices from speaking up....

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You ‘shoot the messenger personal attacks’ don’t work. I have never been any way involved in the orange order. A closed exclusive organisation does not attract me to join. Likewise I would not be attracted to join a closed organisation like the GAA (even if I could join without breaking the rules).

    the comparisons are very clear Both organisations are:

    rooted at the heart of communities

    treasured by there communities

    family orientated

    membership has strong family traditions

    looked upon with suspicion by the ‘other community’

    exclusive and uninviting to those outside there traditional communities

    significant membership of each organisation were murdered and indeed murdered others

    got involved in sectarian politics

    etc etc etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Not sure what you are saying. Are you claiming there numbers of people who hold dual membership of OO and GAA. I doubt it. It sounds a bit like the claims that there are lots of unionists in the GAA. We need to start dealing in realities



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    The GAA should be doing everything it can to encourage the Protestant community to play. "Games for all" and "Where we belong" are two of the recent lines they pushed to promote an inclusive sport. Allowing the sunglasses and beret gang parade around a ground will only divide communities.

    Start by banning all sectarian activities on GAA grounds, heavy fines for people who break the rule. People love Flags (Flegs) up there so start flying both communities flags wherever they can. Do whatever it takes to promote a game for all.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No....I'm saying, membership of each isn't exclusive.....your presenting situation yous can't be member of both,when if you want to deal in realities,that is simply a lie



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Very positive post. That would be transformative



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,625 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    To be a member I need to sign up to be supportive of promoting a 32 county national identity. I can’t.

    would you join an organisation that said you need to promote a Uk national identity across the British isles? I certainly wouldn’t expect you to



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  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is a sidestep of yous knowingly posting lies,as regards to membership being allowed of both OO and GAA..



    I have yet to see a single poster expect yous to join the GAA,so such a comparison and was paid to my door,is the actions of someone who is out of taught, desperately trying to distract from the outright lies,they have knowingly been posting



This discussion has been closed.
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