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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm aware of it and will watch with interest as it gets rolled out in more places. The success of it will depend on how viable it will be economically and for that there needs to be incentives for lower emissions/penalties for emissions so that it stacks up favorably against non capture plants otherwise LCOE numbers would make this unviable in a lot of places. If those penalties do come in they will also severely impact on the viability of older plants which could lead to increased costs for consumers so that may not be a runner politically speaking, in the current climate, who knows once gas prices come back down.

    As of yet though there's only a test facility to look at so we'll have to wait until some commercial sized plants get up and running. Are any actually in construction yet or just proposals? Any estimates as to when we might see something up and running?

    It would be amazing if it worked as advertised and was viable but as of yet I'm not inclined to change my assessment of it but that doesn't mean I won't



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    An assessment of the govt climate actions so far - not bad but could do better

    Commenting on the report the Chief Executive of Friends of the Earth, Oisin Coghlan, said: "We are in a climate emergency and the Government needs to start acting like it. They did it for Covid and Ukraine, but they just aren’t doing it for climate."





  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Point out one poster who is against renewables contributing to the grid. And that's all they can do contribute until massive storage on a scale not created in this world yet can be achieved. It's called realism and practicality. Something a lot of modern day greens have fook all of which has contributed to this absolute mess.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,035 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    As of yet though there's only a test facility to look at so we'll have to wait until some commercial sized plants get up and running.

    Yet things like hydrogen grid scale storage or other novel storage technologies in testing are lauded as "the solution", when they havent been done at grid scale or commerical scale.. hmm

    If CCS works like it seems to we should be going gung-ho behind it to diversify away from gas. Dispatchable low emission electricity is exactly whats needed to bridge the gap between now and grid scale storage solutions actually being built. Reliance on NG is now clear to everyone that its not a great idea..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    Who that in front of Eamon Ryan holding the FoE banner?


    Handy gig, The usual suspects (George Lee - RTE, Caroline O'Doherty, Independent Newspapers) put their name to a press release from an NGO called Friends of the Earth, an organisation that pulls funds from the taxpayer via the EU, Irish government departments and parent organisation (FoE Europe). How much do FoE Ireland pull in from the Irish government? (waiting on 2021 accounts). The grants usually come from Department of the Environment (Eamon Ryan) routed via the Irish Environment Network (IEN) and Department of Foreign Affairs (Simon Coveney) routed via Irish Aid. The press release also includes academic Dr Cara Augustenborg, the expert who was handed climate role canvassed for Greens. The circular economy in action.

    Post edited by Pa ElGrande on

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yet things like hydrogen grid scale storage or other novel storage technologies in testing are lauded as "the solution", when they havent been done at grid scale or commerical scale.. hmm

    You only need look at my post history to see my opinion of hydrogen as a storage medium. I have openly acknowledged that its still early in its development and I would have major issues with it being used as a combustible option as it would be a case of swapping one GHG for another GHG, so would just be stupid. Where its used in fuel cells its a no-brainer and is already in use like this in Korea with 2 or 3 plants (70-80MW) already up and running. These have been linked to here previously

    If CCS works like it seems to we should be going gung-ho behind it to diversify away from gas. Dispatchable low emission electricity is exactly whats needed to bridge the gap between now and grid scale storage solutions actually being built. Reliance on NG is now clear to everyone that its not a great idea..

    I believe I said that



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A very biased IT article as usual by a TCD English grad. Way too complex a subject to discuss as good trees v bad trees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    She even has her own gig on newstalk spouting rubbish. There should be a disclaimer everytime she comes on the radio telling everyone that this is a green party political broadcast.. imagine FF,FG or sinn fein having a cronie on giving a biased view on their performance. There would be uproar



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Even Ryan looks mortified to be there. The absolute cut of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Darth Putin


    Yes Eamon do tell why Ireland on your watch has zero gas storage and no LNG terminals



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You'll have to ask the owners of Shannon why they didn't build it when they had valid permission from 2008-2018



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,664 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Except that battery storage is much cheaper than gas peaker plants

    And they're better at frequency regulation and have near instant response. Replacing 'peakers' with batteries would make the grid more efficient, cost less and allow increased use of renewable energy

    This means we only need gas and coal for baseload until we can build more interconnectors and the offshore wind and solar infrastructure.

    I think you're missing a few important points there. Current battery storage provides peak shaving for a matter of minutes while more baseload is brought online. Yes, it can save money vs. gas peaker plants, but it won't substantially reduce the amount of gas and coal you burn.

    Re: interconnectors, are you saying that we can get rid of gas and coal for baseload once we build enough interconnectors to provide for our entire demand when the wind isn't blowing?? You're seriously suggesting that we will get rid of all baseload capacity and depend on someone else across the sea to provide it?? If everyone did that, who would actually be generating any power? Green nuttery at its worst!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    If there are black outs or a deepening of an energy crisis then I'd be blaming Eamon Ryan before anyone else. Putin included

    The buck stops with the minster who's brief includes energy and energy availability. Thats Eamon Ryan .

    This is why 93% of the population didn't vote Ryan and co.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Did you see him arriving at government buildings on the six one news?

    it’s like a comedy sketch



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The person who started that petition shows as associated with extinction rebellion protesters in Dublin and fits the profile, in addition to a boutique environmental group called Not Here Not Anywhere. XR are old radical left wingers, but have bought their hammer and sickle to the climate change party in an attempt to be relevant again. According to XR, we are in an emergency, in a crisis. But freedom, as we all know it, cannot flourish in a country that is permanently on a crisis, or even a near-crisis. Permanent crisis justifies permanent control of everybody and everything by the agencies of the central government and their political commissars and apparatchiks like the person who started the petition.



    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,758 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Trigger was probably only after taking the bike out of his state car parked around the corner. Imagine him in power?? An embarrassment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For those saying "we can just adapt to any climate change issues", it won't be cheap

    Infrastructure works costing at least €230 million are required to protect parts of the South Dublin Dart line between the Merrion Gates and Greystones in Co Wicklow from collapsing into the sea, according to Irish Rail assessments.

    “Our studies have identified that in the last 20 years there have been more storm event incidences than there have been in the last 100 years thus increasing and accelerating the erosion rates and the climate change impacts.”

    At several locations on the line, including Killiney, climate change and increased rainfall has eroded the facade of the embankment “to bring it to a point where it needs to be remedied and solutions to be put in place to protect it for the future,” he said.

    The project, which will be the largest coastal protection scheme in northern Europe, is expected to be completed in stages within seven years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    Coastal erosion certainly never happened before the current climate change crisis



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    I have sympathy for the green movement but continuing to charge 49% fuel taxes NOW is a travesty to me. They WILL never get my vote.


    Their solution is usually to tax us to death.


    Of course they and FFG have made a total shitballs of our gas and electricity supply ensuring Irish people will suffer this Winter and likely to see powe cuts also...Irish people take a lot of blame aswell, for instance going along with rhe moratorium on offshore exploration and fracking and blocking planning permission of new plants.


    Lets get real here. You cant block everything and then expect to have a functioning energy supply.


    Irish people need to educate themselves on how a lot of current pricing is simply government charges.


    Also on the way that the regulator allowed the energy suppliers to get all get paid the same price daily, no matter that wind supply is abundant and already subsidised by taxpayers in our standing charges!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    I know urban dwellers stocking up now due to gas cost and fear of power cuts More turf will be burnt this year in the cities than in a long time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    in the scenario that the war had never happened, but let’s say there was an accident at either end of the Moffat line that knocked gas supply off for two weeks and this coincides with a period of calm weather with low wind- we would be in the exact same position.

    ER is using the war as a distraction for the lack of alternative fossil fuels sources we have on the system, the lack of alternative generation, and the lack of renewable generation also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    If we lose supply via Moffat, and if this coincides with a period of low wind we will be depending on:

    corrib providing its full output of 30% of Irelands gas needs

    All coal and oil gas plants maxed out providing generation.

    Is this enough to keep the lights on? Does anyone know how many GW that is?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The info is here, including projections into the future

    http://www.eirgridgroup.com/site-files/library/EirGrid/208281-All-Island-Generation-Capacity-Statement-LR13A.pdf

    Appendix 2 looks to contain the info I think you are after

    There's also a handy table showing projections for alternative sources

    And info for NI as they are part of the SEM


    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It should be noted that this doesn't capture changes over the last 2-3 years. For example, it lists the following as 2030 targets towards achieving 70% renewables

    An increase of electricity from renewable sources to 70% via:

    • At least 3.5 GW of offshore renewable energy,
    • Up to 1.5 GW of grid-scale solar PV energy,
    • Up to 8.2 GW total of increased onshore wind capacity.

    Whereas the newest figures for those are more like

    • 7 GW of offshore renewable energy,
    • 5.5 GW of grid-scale solar PV energy,
    • 9 GW total of increased onshore wind capacity.

    It also lists Tarbert and Moneypoint with closure dates but those have been put on hold and so on, but its the most recent summary I could find.

    I guess the energy security review due later this year will have more up-to-date info



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Right so there’s 7313MW including DSU (demand side unit) which I presume means customer providing power.

    DSU=540 MW.

    3794MW are gas/distillate oil this includes Aghada, dublin bay, great island etc.

    So In the scenario that Moffat goes offline and we are depending on corrib then 70% of the gas generation will have to turn to distillate oil, which would be 2655.8MW.

    As I understand it we would have 90 days of oil on whiddy island that might be able to keep these plants running but that’s a massive logistical task- I’ve pointed out before we don’t have a pipeline going from whiddy island to the rest of Ireland.

    So corrib could supply approx 1138.2MW with the rest of the gas plants running on distillate oil.

    Moneypoint would also have to be maxed out providing its full 855MW.

    Do we have the demand figures from last year? Actually I see a figure of 6878MW as the all time peak demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    For situations where there is no wind/solar Eirgrid will handle that with a combination of DSUs and enforced power cuts for some areas. The worst case scenario is a period of extended cold over 6 to 8 weeks that causes gas demand to surge and supply run down, operations such as Turlough hill to freeze. In that situation there is no gas at any price and maintaining grid stability becomes a problem. The numbers quoted by Eirgrid for Wind & Solar are nameplate capacity and not indicative of ability to generate electricity at any point in time, you would have to work with 30% generation from wind at any one time, since most scenarios in Winter there will be some wind (there may not be enough), the cost of grid stability services goes vertical, therefore economics comes into it and depending on the weather forecast a decision from Eirgrid may be needed to drop areas from the grid in order to conserve gas supplies.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Those figures for solar, on-shore and of shore wind are meaningless.

    They are the maximum nameplate capacity. Little or no wind or sunshine and as we have seen a number of times in the past year alone they drop off to virtually nothing.

    For on-shore wind here the 12 month rolling average is around 30%. Off-shore for the U.K. around 40%.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Ireland never had gas storage facilities and always paid foreign countries to keep it in theirs.

    how long would an lng terminal take to build ?



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