Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Brexit has certainly made the benefits more obvious, but with chapters opened with Ukraine and Moldova I don't think it's the end of expansion. It's not an empire, it's a rationalisation of nations pooling sovereignty in a world of rising competing trade blocs. Edit to add we hear virtually zero about the RCEP yet it will accelerate the worlds economic centre of gravity back east.

The problem I've seen from living in England is that many voters there feel that the UKs economy is the same size as the EU and is central to world trade. Their head whispers that that's not true, but it's how they feel.

They became a weapons outfitter for dubious clients after the end of empire so in that respect they are a arms dealer world power, but now estranged from their largest trade partner those dubious arms deals and associated wealth offshoring can be used against them in trade disputes with the EU.

Ah now you should be more honest. That "I want it reformed" is a crock, and is what the far right and left all over Europe seem to have latched onto as a cover story because they've realised just openly saying they want to leave the EU isn't a popular policy in their manifestos. They've decided keeping a bit quiet on their EU-feelings and wrecking it from the inside is better after Brexit was such a fiasco. I suppose they think the electorates all have attention span of a squirrel or memory of a goldfish, maybe they are right!

I do agree with you that I don't think the response to the UK + their general hostility post Brexit has been firm enough so far, though I fully understand the reasons, and it has nothing to do with shafting Ireland. What do you make of the fact that it is likely imo the Irish govt. is one party inside the EU that blunts a firmer response? Am I incorrect about that? How can you swing blaming "the EU" for the fact that Irish govt. is imo quite scared of the UK govt., knows well it is Ireland that will bear alot of the brunt if/when the EU takes the gloves off, and has agreed with waiting it out and hoping for some kind of political change in the UK? I can't think of a way to do that.

Brexit was always going to hurt Ireland but I don't believe the UK should be forced to remain because of that. Nor do I feel Brussels should put into free fall for this decision.

The EU simply needs to stick to the agreements that have been made and ignore the noise that is just rabble rousing in the UK.

We would scarcely be even discussing Brexit vis-a-vis impact on Ireland but for the fact that the Tory Govt, plus their enablers in the English right wing press, keep bringing up the idea of binning the Protocol. But for that, everyone in Ireland would have long since moved on from the topic.

Single Market membership may well be the thing that prevents us going into recession at any point in the next 2-3 years. Conversely, the Leave crowd keep flatly denying that Brexit has had any negative impact on their (UK) economy and yet are struggling to explain why it is in very bad shape at the moment.

I think the penny is dropping though. Sure, you have Tory MPs and Daily Telegraph opinion writers denying everything, but we're seeing a huge amount of criticism of Brexit on social media. Where are the supposed Brexit benefits in 2022? Even the hardcore Europhobes can't identify any.

I do think if the Tories are booted from office in disgrace, people will fully be able to make the connection between them falling from grace and the Brexit disaster. Brexit was always one million per cent a Tory thing, from Cameron and May through to Johnson and Truss. Whether a success or failure, it could only ever be linked to the Tory Party.

It won't be reversed any time in the next 10-20 years but we may see a general admission that it is an abject failure. The far right English press and Tory MPs are already fighting a losing battle in trying to defend it and acclaim it as being wonderful - the mood in England might be quite ugly in a couple of years' time.

The only way brexit will be reversed is if the UK itself dissolves.

It may take decades or a few years of social collapse for England to ditch its notion of greatness.

I always remember an Irish friend living in London for years coming up to visit us in north England and they were shocked by how much of a different country this England was to them.

They would certainly be completely inadmissible at the moment. Much of the English public, media and ruling class are hardcore Europhobes (ignore the "love Europe, hate the EU" stuff.....they hate Europe in general). It would take major changes in attitudes before the EU would even contemplate having them back.

I think Larry would actually make a better PM, liked that image you posted.

*Laugh*, targeted 66m and got 238K who were probably lost and looking for the loo. Launched in 2018!

Still, no doubt Tory backers got their share of that £120m.