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Softening house market?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    Rubbish and you know it yet you still post it.

    Research from the NY Fed suggests that more than half of the post-pandemic inflation was driven by stronger demand:


    Central banks are targeting excess demand by raising rates, monetary policy is what is needed now, nothing else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The 0.5% I was referring to was the increase from -0.5% ECB rate to 0% ECB rate. This could actually have had a positive effect on businesses as the rate they paid on loans did not increase, however there money on deposit would have started to exit from the effect of negative interest rates.

    That technical increase in interest rates could actually be seen as a boost to the economy when the economy is strong.

    IMO the banks may even absorb some of the next increase as well. We will need to see interest rates of nearly 1% before we see a real 0.5% interest rate increase in the economy.

    Money will not start to flow into deposits out of the business until that happens

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ecjjaian


    There’s a perfectly good “current state of Irish property market thread” for armchair economists to give their view on how macro factors will affect the Irish housing market , this thread is for things like anecdotal tales of house prices dropping or the dearth of viewers in particular areas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭thedart


    I can see the market becoming flaccid until quarter two 2023. Challenging times ahead, made wrong moves on property before so unsure what to do.

    Ive wore the shirt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭drogon.


    It still doesn’t change the fact that with negative interest rate, borrowing was encouraged to grow the economy - open a new business, expand an existing operating etc.

    With regards to banks absorbing the next interest hike. I have my doubts, but we will have to see. But I have a feeling they will ultimately start paying deposit holders. But again we will have to see.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Calculator123


    Softening outside urban areas?


    Is there any noticable slow down or change in asking or actual prices in more rural or western areas? The Covid bump caused prices in some of these areas to skyrocket. Those trying to buy in Dublin suddenly presented with an option to work anywhere but have Dublin sized deposits, thus putting prices way out of reach for long term rural dwellers. With many being encouraged back to the office, is this phenomenon lessening?



  • Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭manniot2


    There is nobody going back to offices. Many will disagree but I can see houses in Dublin being on par if not cheaper than Galway,cork etc in 5 years time.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,735 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    There is nobody going back to offices.

    I don't think this is true at all. Dublin rush hour traffic had been steadily building in my experience, then it went quiet again with the usual summer lull, but the past couple of days it's pretty much back to pre-covid levels.



  • Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭manniot2


    We can both just share anecdotes I guess. My office has 50 employees. There was 2 people in there yesterday. Everyone in my estate works from home, as do all my friends. When this has washed through to the next batch of people deciding where to live/work, Dublin will lose.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,735 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The Dublin traffic is not anecdotal.

    I believe all indicators to date are that hybrid work is preferred over fully remote.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,772 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Inevitably housing in Dublin and other city areas is going to be less desirable with remote work. But the shortage is still really bad, all over the country, urban and most rural areas.

    While the market is really hot now, there are houses being built now, around here it's at a level not seen since pre 2008, so some of the sting is surely going to be taken out of it by 2023-24, unless there is huge immigration.

    I would say that anyone thinking of investing in property has already missed the boat, and should keep their powder dry for a few more years at least. For people thinking of buying just for themselves, it's much more complex. If you were thinking of buying in a rural county I'd probably say go ahead, remote work is going to mean a long term change in the market, with urban areas far less desirable than previously. If you want to live in Dublin, you need to look at a good few factors, even if property does but you still have to pay high rent for the next 2-3 years is it really worth waiting?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭wassie


    Will be interesting to see what happens in 6 months time in Dublin - Theres been news article of late suggesting that WFH may be less attractive if energy cost continue to rise unabated.




  • Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭manniot2


    Plenty of pent up demand in Dublin for sure. I’m not talking about major price decreases this year or next. But more longer term, when the 25year olds of today don’t have to move up, there demand for housing in 5-10years time will be gone (at the cost of rural locations) and Dublin housing will be on a par with everywhere else. Why wouldn’t it be?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Very poorly taught out article. Unless you live within a short distance of your work any savings will be lose in transport costs. For familiers it may mean extra child caring costs as well. yes young single people living in rented accomodation where they live near there work may find it cheaper to go to the office rather than WFH. Even a modest commute of 150 miles a week will cost 30/week in fuel alone, add tyres, maintenance and wear and tear on a car and you are probably at 50/week. That is 200/ month in transpport costs. Add in childcare costs and the inconvience of spending 60 minutes commuting and its hard to see it not costing you to go to the office

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    There is a housing shortage that will not be addressed in the short term. If you have aspirations of settling down, either in Dublin or anywhere else, you can sit and wait intending to pick up a house cheaper in the coming years. What price you put on this wait time is up to you. Is a house that is 10% cheaper in the future worth putting your life on hold for this duration. For me I priced this in when deciding to buy in Q2 this year



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,542 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    That's fine if you have a large commute, which always seems to be the assumption. But a tonne of people don't have a large commute and/or take public transport. I have no doubt energy bills will cause more (not all, just more) workers to return to the office. I don't think people have a grasp on just how bad their bills are going to get.



  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    Also, what I have noticed from working from home, especially thru COVID, is the wear and tear on my house. It used to look fresh when I came back from work when I wasn't living and cooking in it all day!



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,405 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    I don’t think that’s true. Living in Kilkenny where there’s a big office workforce people are definitely back in offices- you can see it in the traffic and just talking to people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I would not call 15 miles/day each way a long commute. As well child care costs are crazy. For couples with children in school it manageable to get away without childcare if WFH. For two children you could be saving 3-400/week

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    In general, cannot see WFH continuing long term. Friend, senior in a law firm, delighted to be back in office and recognises importance for juniors.

    Also, having WFH over Christmas, it was cold in our house. Has to talk without chattering teeth, big challenge.

    Finally, why pay top dollar for WFH Irish when you can pay half price elsewhere?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,014 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    And all the while the money you're keeping/saving for the eventual deposit is inflating away at 10% a year, and you could be wasting 5% of the purchase price of the prospective house in rent a year. In addition, mortgage rates are still very low, and you can currently fix for a long amount of time at a historically very low rate like 2.3%. This option probably won't be there in the future.

    Even leaving aside the delay in life plans etc, from a financial point of view you'd have to be very certain there'll be a serious haircut in the market to hold off for long currently imo, if in that position



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,476 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    We have had the Chicken Lickens around since 2014 when prices started to rise in 2014. First of all the rise in prices was an anomaly and we would get a double dip. The. It was Brexit, then it was the LL going to flee from the market that would cause a complete collapse. Next ot was COVID, now it Ukraine conflict and energy prices.

    The advice was always ''you be an idiot to buy houses will be 20+% cheaper net year.

    I hope too many people did not take there advice over the years.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭drogon.


    Well tell that to the people who bought in end of 2007 and early 2008. People swore that it would never happen and it did. The market is a cycle of good times and bad times. We just have to wait and see where it goes.

    That being said If you can afford a house, you are mad not to buy it. Chances are if the economy tanks you will find it hard for anyone to lend you money. Not to add the crazy rents at the moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Calculator123


    My sense is that employers are keen to get employees back in the office but most are offering at least a day or two at home. Anecdotally, attendance is still lower than this with some employees refusing to come in regularly, if at all. The battle lines are still being drawn on this front, so will be interesting to see how things evolve.


    However, when it comes to the consequential impact on those wishing to move permanently west etc. outside of the major urban areas, it presents a problem: there are a few who can work fully remote and will certainly take advantage of this and move out. This cohort have driven rural prices up and may continue to sustain them for a while. For those however who don't have permission to work full time at home, they have a problem. Once there is a expectation by an employer that the employee be present in the office at some regular interval, there is a risk for that employee in upping sticks away from the office.

    In time, this may make the actual numbers moving to Cahersiveen etc. dwindle and prices will adjust accordingly.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was never about work from home. That was always a strawman

    It’s about a culture of flexility which, working in a financial services MNC, I’ve been lucky to enjoy for over a decade…..I’ve not done a 5-day-in-the-office week since 2010 and neither have most of my colleagues. It’s about some time at home if wanted (or not, if not wanted), flexibility to have important appointments during traditional work time, flexible start / finish times, a focus on delivery rather than presenteeism, an awareness of mental health…..

    all these things have moved in the right direction except in the most prehistoric of companies

    edit: realised this is the housing not the WFH thread, so off topic



  • Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭ARJn


    I am in market for a new home since last 6 months , and I can tell you that it is now 100 times easy to book a new home than it was 3 months ago , I was not invited for a phase launch in south dublin where I responded to launch email in < 2min

    Recently I booked the same development in next phase after responding to launch email after 5 hours , and also when I went there I had a choice of like 20 homes to choose from which was unheard of in last 2 years

    But I did not sign the contract and backed off as I do not see the value in paying the high price buildup of last 2 years given that rate of interest might go higher again and so do not want to have a high house price + highest interest rates locked in , when the market collapses


    But if you have the money and an area in mind and are committed to stay for years I would say best time to buy




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,772 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    It's a hard one I know, and I definitely wouldn't be buying to rent at the moment, but are prices really likely to fall so much that you'd be better off renting for a couple of more years and buying then? Maybe they will, I genuinely don't know, obviously they're at a very high level compared to wages right now.


    Am in the west of Ireland myself and there's plenty to buy here already, with quite a lot of houses currently being built. But there's virtually no place to rent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    The more I look at his the more I think stagflation.

    The Government has paid just over 2.2pc to borrow on the markets – around seven times higher than the cost in January – in its latest benchmark bond auction Thursday morning.

    The public sector is getting a 6.5% pay rise, still below inflation and I'd say the private sector will be experiencing layoffs if energy doesn't come down.

    So, the government will be paying more in interest leaving it with less to spend and spending more on public sector pay bill.

    Public sector pay rises below inflation.

    Private sector unemployment likely.

    I've been wrong before but it really is starting to look like a potential softening to me.

    for reference, myhome:

    10 Sept 2021 - 12509 listings

    2 Sept 2022 - 15587 listings

    That's a 24% increase over last year and continuing to rise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    If you want to know how good people on this forum are at predicting the future:-


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79006148



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  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭Mr Hindley


    Things are absolutely quietening down significantly - I viewed a house last week, really nice house in a great location in Stillorgan, handy for shops, Luas, N11, all in good condition, a fair few other people there (it was the second open viewing.) I just assumed it would be going for well over asking. I phoned up today, and there's only one offer in, at 5% below asking. Even a month ago, I don't think that would be the case.



This discussion has been closed.
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