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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Nameplate capacity! Even a fossil fuel plant doesn’t produce at nameplate capacity of the time if they did they would break.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Slovenia's nuclear power plant had a capacity factor of 99.5%, recently and there is a NPP in the UK that went over 4 years of continuous output without interruption.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Kinnsale for used for that purpose until 2017

    Kinsale Area Gasfields, offshore Ireland - the Kinsale Area gasfields are located off Cork in the south of Ireland. They comprise the Kinsale Head, Southwest Kinsale and Ballycotton Gas Fields and are owned and operated by Marathon. The Kinsale Head Gasfield was discovered in the Lower Cretaceous Greensand in 1971 and started production in 1978. The field is produced through two platforms, Alpha and Bravo, with Bravo production routed through the Alpha platform, co-mingled with the Alpha production and exported via a 24 inch pipeline to the onshore distribution system.

    However, the gasfield depleted and following preparatory work in 2000, the Kinsale Gasfield became Ireland’s first seasonal production facility in 2001, when the southwest lobe of the Kinsale Field was converted for gas storage. The depleting reservoir is recharged during the summer months, with gas re-produced and delivered to the market in the winter months, when demand is higher.

    source

    You may recall December 2010 was cold. (temperatures recorded of -18C)

    With reference to market-based supply side measures, Ireland has some limited production capacity in Kinsale that can be drawn on to increase supply. In the cold periods of January and December 2010 a combination of production and storage gas from the Kinsale storage facility contributed 16% of Ireland total demand. However, this facility is now in blowdown mode and is due to close in 2020

    source

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Details of ban on gas and oil home-heating systems to be known within weeks

    “And when it comes to existing boilers, that whole fleet of boilers in the 25pc of houses that were built between 2000 and 2010, we have to make sure they switch to heat pumps, not to new gas boilers, not to replace fossil with fossil.”

    Mr Ryan said district heating, where heat generated by industrial and commercial activities is captured and piped into surrounding homes, would have to be rapidly and widely deployed.

    Well, given the contraints imposed by this government on availability of future gas supply, the plan better be good.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    No sign of breakage there for fossil fuel plants.

    Seeing that figure for renewables is made up of hydro., solar and wind the turbines might as well be broken.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    DSUs are from customers who are willing to forego power that they otherwise would have used. They are allowed to sell it as capacity, since it provides additional margin in times of shortage. It's effectively paying people not to consume and doesn't actually represent additional energy, and can also have a knock-on economic cost (over and above the capacity cost).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Ok so Ireland stored gas in kinsale until 2017, interesting, when did Eamon Ryan and the greens get into government🤔 o ya 2020

    So you’ve now proven that @Darth Putin comment earlier, “ Yes Eamon do tell why Ireland on your watch has zero gas storage and no LNG terminals” is based on nothing but hot air 👍



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    ER is a laugh a minute, I wouldn't put a heat pump in if you paid me. The price of electricity is going one way, black outs are a certainty in the near future, not to mention the retro work and expenses needed to install an efficient heat pump. The man actually hasn't a bloody clue and lives a fantasy world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    He's literally the most stupid politician in the history of the state. I don't think he's all there at all.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    A very disingenuous post, but not an unsurprising one from you. That article is talking about floating terminals not a land based one as what is proposed in Shannon Bridge, which would take 3 to 5 years to construct and that not including planning and protest and we all know how corrib went.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    build a floating one then sell it once the other is built. No joined up thinking at all. Sure you could rent it out as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    You forgot their little adventure with Fianna Fail from 2007 to 2011, the one where they stayed in government to ban stag hunting. Where was Ryan then . . . he was Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    You see what the UK did with building regulations part L (Conservation of Fuel and Energy – Dwellings)? Ireland generally follows.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 584 ✭✭✭SC024




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭combat14


    apparently they want us all to use heat pumps which use 46% more electricity which as we all know is getting cheaper by the day .....

    how soon can we get these wealthy elitists who have no regard for ordinary citizens out



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I see at the end of that article Ryan is moaning about the apartments in the Docklands not being connected to the heat from the Poolbeg incinerator.

    It seems to have slipped his mind that the Green Party, and in particular then leader of the party, John Gormley campaigned against that incinerator. They even included their opposition to it in their 2007 manifesto. Surprising Ryan didn`t recall that as he was Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources in that 2007 - 2011 government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Sure it's hard to keep track of the lies, backtracking, dissembling. 🤐



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,872 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    remember 2 things...

    if there are blackouts (i dont think it will happen), remember 2 things...

    1. blame russia
    2. its certainly not the green policies, no way, jose




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306



    There is no easy solution. I have plenty of ideas but society can only do things that are both economically feasible and politically acceptable. Right now there is a jarring disconnect between those two aims. I don't think anything is going to happen until we get jolted back to reality, which may or may not happen.

    However, I can certainly tell you what I think is not going to happen -- renewable energy nirvana by 2050. Here is a picture of how fossil fuel use has developed since 1800:

    I think humans have a hard time getting their heads around the concept of exponential growth. It's not intuitive, even to the mathematically inclined. You look at the graph above and think we've created a big problem for ourselves in the last 70 years since 1950. Not true. Fossil use has been growing exponentially since 1800. Here's an exponential function divorced from any real-world connection but with a similar timeline and growth rate:


    This also looks like it goes nuts in the last 70 years. Yet the whole thing is a perfectly smooth exponential curve with just a piddling 1.6% growth per annum. In 220 years it grows by a factor of more than thirty.

    Note that in the primary energy graph earlier, the absolute amount of "traditional biomass" which dominated energy consumption pre-1800 did not decrease. It went up. That's something to bear in mind when considering energy use going forward and the rapid growth of renewables. Yes, they are growing exponentially, but they are barely making a dent as a proportion of all energy consumption. Twenty years ago, 85% of all energy globally came from fossils, and it's pretty much the same today.

    Global oil consumption has been increasing pretty much exponentially at 1.5% annual growth for decades. Natural gas consumption is growing even quicker. Of any endeavour, the latter is responsible for the biggest reduction in CO2 emissions so far, since it has displaced a lot of coal. Coal use peaked in 2014 ... until last year when it increased again and nearly hit previous highs. Among the world's top ten coal consumers, Germany had the biggest percentage increase in coal use last year. This year will almost certainly see another increase.

    I also note that hydropower has long been the biggest component of the renewable sector, but it is not going to massively increase in future. Some resources are inherently limited by physics and geography. I believe the same is true of wind and solar. Those resources have a very uneven geographical spread. It may come as a shock to those of us with a maritime climate, but the interiors of continents tend to be dominated by big lazy high pressure systems. And the best solar resources are not all close to the places with highest energy demand.

    With all that in mind, let's look at one organisation's projections for how we get to carbon neutral by 2050 (just by-the-by, this is from 2017 and the same crowd predicted EVs to be cheaper than ICEs by 2022 ... fail):

    So first of all, this is only electricity generation. They have it more than doubling from 2020 to 2050 which is in line with IEA projections. But we probably need to do way better than that if the Green vision of electrifying transport, industry and heating is to come to pass. So I don't think this is realistic even on its own terms.

    But then look at the growth of wind and solar. By my quick calculation it is a sustained growth rate of 10% annually for 30 years. That is unprecedented in the history of energy infrastructure, to say the least. Even though I readily admit that solar power has achieved that rate of growth for a couple of years, I believe it is extremely unrealistic in the long term, bordering on preposterous. Overall renewables growth in the USA from 2010 to 2020, for example, was a much more sedate (though still impressive) 3.5%. And again, there's that exponential growth conundrum -- if you do 3.5% growth instead of 10% for 30 years you miss your target by a factor of more than six.

    There are other headwinds. This happy Green path assumes that renewable power will be a low-cost nirvana whereby we all wave goodbye to fossils with minimum disruption. There are at least two reasons why that's unlikely to be the case: the cost of inputs, and unreliability.

    Unfriendly government policies toward fossil fuel industries, subsidies for renewables, and corporate ESG, are having a predictably deleterious effect. Globally we have underinvested in fossil fuel extraction by a trillion dollars over the past several years.

    Fossil fuels do not grow on trees. Twenty years ago we had predictions of armageddon and global population die-off because we had hit "Peak Oil". Energy extraction from unconventional sources -- deepwater and shale oil and gas -- is monumentally expensive. It has been sustained by incredible (and incredibly expensive) advances in technology. The public doesn't get to hear about them because they are unfashionable. That is worrying, since our entire way of life fundamentally depends on them for the time being.

    And so, when you see the above graph showing a steep decline in fossil fuel use, you have to ask whether renewables can take up the slack where traditionally cheap sources of energy have left off. The overwhelming evidence so far is that they cannot. Nowhere in the world that has increased renewable energy use has seen falling energy prices. And as underinvestment in fossils pushes their cost up, the evidence is that renewables increase in cost at the same time.

    That's not hard to understand. Renewables are extremely wasteful of many commodities compared to fossils. Just looking at copper alone, renewables use between four and fourteen times as much for the equivalent fossil-based energy generation (with the high end being for the "desirable" goals of solar and offshore wind). We needn't recite the list of other commodities -- neodymium, praseodymium etc. -- that's well covered elsewhere. Does anyone honestly think that renewables are not going to hit their own resource bottlenecks in the next 30 years? Especially when the fossil fuels that power extractive industries are being wound down?

    Then we get to unreliability. I've banged on about this elsewhere so I won't rehearse it again. Truly grid-scale energy storage is not coming. Full stop.

    So, this is all a very longwinded way of saying that wind and solar aren't on my list of solutions to climate change. As I said, you have to rule out the impossible "solutions" before you decide what other more realistic options you have. Right now, Green policies have so captured the public mindset that I think we are locked into a self-destructive spiral for the foreseeable future. I don't think we're going to change tack until we have seen those policies fail decisively. We will be in a world of hurt by then, but at least we can start to pick up the pieces. I hope that will happen before Green policies have killed millions, if not tens of millions, of people.

    By the way, I don't think there's any way of completely overhauling our energy infrastructure in 30 years regardless of technology -- it's taken a hundred years to build it, it will take the same again to replace it. Right now we are wasting time going in the wrong direction.

    Post edited by ps200306 on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    No i didn’t forget it an since the kinsale gas storage facility was open until 2017 long after 2011 your point is irrelevant



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    It’s a floating storage facility we’d still have to build a lng to gas conversion facility on land plus the pipeline infrastructure. Germany all ready have those. Rent it 🤦‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    For what it's worth there is near universal agreement among Irish politicians, before you think opportunists like Sinn Fein are any better. Here is what they said in their 2020 manifesto. Who is to blame among political parties? They all are.

    More than 80% of known and proved reserves on the planet must remain in the ground if we are to limit global temperature increases to under 1.5° Celsius. Sinn Féin is opposed to new infrastructure that will lock us into fossil fuel use for decades to come and greatly impede the transition to a zero-carbon economy.

    Sinn Féin is totally opposed to fracking. This has been our position for years. The Government’s attempts to import fracked gas into this state are disgraceful. Fracking is an environmental disaster All of the Irish state’s peat and coal-fuelled electricity plants are due to close by the end of 2025, if not sooner. This is a necessary move, but one that must be framed by the principles of a just transition and headed by a Just Transition Task Force.

    There is a need to divest from fossil fuels by obliging public bodies such as the Strategic Ireland Investment Fund to move its money out of fossil fuel companies. There is also a need to prohibit such future investment in the industry by state or semi-state enterprises - removing the investment capital of public pension schemes in fossil fuel companies and to redirect this investment where possible into green bonds.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭F34


    I really didn’t think this idiot could be any more divorced from reality. The costs involved of changing from gas to heat pump with all the extra insulation etc are going to be astronomical to make it function properly.

    We are already running into electricity generation issues and he seems to be hell bent on exacerbating the issue.

    The man is an idiot not fit for office when he can’t see the wood from the trees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭gw80


    That Mike Tyson quote comes to mind when reading that,"everybody has a plan,until they get punched in the face"

    And that is what this crisis is,an unexpected punch in the face,

    That statement means nothing now,the game has changed



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    To an extent you can argue that, however, this crisis as a result of the effects of the energy policy over the past decade have been in the works for some time, some people anticipated the crisis to hit after 2025. The EU response to the Russian invasion has bought forward that time-line.

    1. Politicians across the EU are committed to increasing the price of fossil fuels, by a ratcheting mechanism. The signed off on this in 2015 (Enda Kenny government - Paris agreement). They were not expecting the prices to go vertical so quickly.
    2. The bankers and brokers expect to make a fortune on carbon emissions trading, It is no coincidence that a central banker like Mark Carney is heavily involved as are others under the banner of ESG.
    3. Politicians across the EU set policy that their citizens (or subjects) be forced from consuming primary sources (Oil, Coal & gas) to secondary source (electricity).
    4. Politicians in Ireland banned nuclear generation in Ireland since 1999, Germany (Angela Merkel) began the process of phasing theirs out in 2011 and are down to their last 3. Where do we go for baseload power?
    5. Each country in the EU (and the UK) pursues the same policy of closing down their fossil fuel plants (mainly coal) and removing their reserve generation capacity, instead depending on inter-connectors from any country that has surplus generation to make up any shortfalls. What happens when all the reserve generation is gone?
    6. In Ireland the politicians have set the target of 70% electricity generation by "renewables" by 2030 which simultaneously increasing the load by EVs and heat exchanges. They have been warned of the risks since 2017 and ignored it.
    7. By 2025 Corrib gas will be in decline, current Tarbert and Moneypoint generation will be shut-down ( that was the plan - if they dare in the current circumstance)

    Bottom line, Irelands electrical grid is destined to encounter major stability problems based on the trajectory of the policies enacted and pursued by successive governments who collectively got hooked on hopium and ignored the engineers.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Can anyone explain why there is such objections to biomass energy plants?

    Was passing by Gort or Cusheen the other day and saw no biomass plants signage



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The Gort Concerned Residents group say that the biogas plant would have a negative impact on the town due to the volume of heavy vehicles, transporting materials to the plant, that would be coming to the town on a near daily basis.

    source

    The proposed plant in Gort will also come with its own distinct odour.

    It is proposed to provide a biogas plant on a 20 acre site on the outskirts of Gort town. It will take in food waste and slurry and produce gas for the production of food products and for energy purposes.

    NIMBYs aside. The main issue with most of them is economics. The raw material must be produced near the plant (transport costs), the material needs to have a low moisture content before it can be burned, a problem people who experimented with growing Miscanthus grass ran into. As a consequence most of the material burned is timber, sawdust, offcuts etc. The biggest biomass plant in the UK (DRAX) imports wood from the United States. there was a plan to do the same in Mayo (Enda Kennys constituency) years ago but the operator went bankrupt.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    He is incorrect, the combination of fascism and woke-ism is in plain sight under the corporate moniker of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG), or should that be Extreme Shortages Guaranteed (ESG) in relation to the supply of gas.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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