The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

notsocutehoor · 02-09-2022 7:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561505#Comment_119561505

Ah they will, just look at their record to date and how they're performing at the moment, why would you have any worries

Fionn1952 · 02-09-2022 7:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559659#Comment_119559659

It's a sign that people harking back to pre-GFA events to slow the SF gains is about as effective as talking about the civil war in an attempt to hamper FF/FG. I'm aware there are differences (namely in the number of people still living directly affected by the former), but electorates move on.

You're on a hiding to nothing trying to convince 18-25 year olds not to vote SF because of things that happened before they were born, but instead to vote for a party that came from a similarly violent past before that. Economic arguments and an alternative with some sort of plan to reduce the pressure on these young kids is the best way to stop SF growing. They're playing in easy mode, promising to be all things to all men....and instead of pointing this out, explaining the gaping holes in their plan and pointing to an alternative, it is all shut out with the, 'but the Provos' signal to noise ratio.

02-09-2022 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561531#Comment_119561531

That about the provos rethoric (only participant in conflict to have left stage,only ones consistently criticised too,it seems).....

would seem to me,an admission by em that they are throwing in town as regards recruiting new voters and trying to noisily herd people for whom it is an issue into a particular corner.....

I seen online,that the IRA/troubles were mentioned in media more so this year to end june,than the entirety of 2018 & 2019,when shinners were consistently polling below the critical 15%,it's the utter transparently grates tbh

brokenangel · 02-09-2022 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561518#Comment_119561518

I guess you live in the Rep?

Look around and you see all the advantages the people have here, it says a lot when you are on the M1 on a Monday morning as the exodus from Northern Ireland happens

Yes we have problems but we are working to fix them, like every country in the world

brokenangel · 02-09-2022 8:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561531#Comment_119561531

If they actually looked at SF record in government in the North it would tell them all they need to know

blanch152 · 03-09-2022 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561531#Comment_119561531

Just because I am on a hiding to nothing about convincing the youth doesn't mean I am wrong about SF.

shirrup · 03-09-2022 11:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563995#Comment_119563995

So you're preaching to the converted?

"Old Man yelling at cloud" meme needed perhaps.

brokenangel · 03-09-2022 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564001#Comment_119564001

This is from Google search

An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages. They differ from chat rooms in that messages are often longer than one line of text, and are at least temporarily archived.

You are complaining about someone discussing a topic on a discussion forum.

blanch152 · 03-09-2022 12:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564001#Comment_119564001

You are missing the point.

Fionn was asking why I was continuing to talk about the PIRA and SF and their past because the youth of today aren't listening.

I am doing so because it is the right thing to do, and I am not wrong.

Other posters may be happy that SF is winning a propaganda contest to make people forget what they really are, I am not.

shirrup · 03-09-2022 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564135#Comment_119564135

You are complaining about someone discussing a topic on a discussion forum.

Where am I complaining? Or where in my post did you get a "complaining vibe"?

Poster stated clearly they realised that they are

on a hiding to nothing about convincing the youth

So, if they acknowledge themselves that they're not going to convince the youth, they're doing exactly what I said they are, preaching to the converted, or in their own words "on a hiding to nothing" yet they persist. That's not a complaint, I actually think it's bloody hilarious.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564282#Comment_119564282

I'm not missing any point, and you perhaps missed Fionns point. FFG have lost a lot of their base support, some of it permanently (through death in the older generation) some of it through the corruption and incompetence that they keep showing.

You might as well stand on a street corner preaching about the old IRAs atrocities from the civil war, as harping on about the Provos to a young person who is struggling with housing, or trying to avail of the health system.

You said as much yourself in the post I quoted.

I wouldn't dream about interrupting you either because a good bit of it is hysterical to watch.

brokenangel · 03-09-2022 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564540#Comment_119564540

its a discussion forum, you seem unhappy someone is discussing SF, maybe I’m wrong?

Fact is SF are very good at spreading propaganda. Like their record in the North is terrible but it’s the DUP fault.

They made a mess of DCC but that was, well I’m not sure, but someone else’s fault

The Troubles was a glorious fight with the population behind them like 1916 etc, which it wasn’t, just look at the thread here and someone going on about having the balls to join PIRA, as if they some freedom fighters.

As I said it might take SF getting into government for the youth of today to learn what everyone else did years ago .

Do you honestly think SF popularity at the moment is because of the excellent TDs they have?

At the time I would have preferred to have SF into government in 2020 because at this stage they would have even thrown out and we could have moved on

Not sure what Ff/FG needs to be mentioned?

shirrup · 03-09-2022 2:10pm

its a discussion forum, you seem unhappy someone is discussing SF

No I don't, I don't "seem unhappy"at all, in fact I clearly stated I think it's hilarious that the poster acknowledges that the constant harping on about the troubles and Provos won't make a blind bit of difference to young people from voting for Sinn Fein. I repeat I actually stated it right in my post, twice.

Not sure what Ff/FG needs to be mentioned?

You are sure. It's called context. If you followed the flow of discussion, the post blanch replied to, and what led us here, you'd not need to be "not sure" at all.

For clarification, hey're the main alternatives for those same young people to vote for, and it's because of their antics and the shambles they've made of housing and health that those same young people are looking at voting SF.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

brokenangel · 03-09-2022 2:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564815#Comment_119564815

SF have made a shambles of housing and health

I added in after so I will ask again, do you honestly think SF are popular because of the excellent TDs they have?

shirrup · 03-09-2022 2:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564970#Comment_119564970

I can't answer that with certainty, so I'll instead make an alternative suggestion.

Maybe young people are looking towards SF simply because they're not FFG.

If SF are a "protest vote" what are the people protesting about?

So my alternative suggestion is, maybe it's more a case of SF are currently popular because of the pathetic track record of the status quo. Meaning they're "more unpopular".

You see the hole in your protest vote theory now, yeah?

Fionn1952 · 03-09-2022 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563995#Comment_119563995

I didn't say you were, Blanch.....just that being right isn't worth much if they continue growing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564282#Comment_119564282

I didn't ask why you continue to talk about it, I know the answer to that; your own hatred of SF. I won't even get into an argument about that because I don't think you're wrong to hate them.

I just pointed out that a more effective way of stopping their growth may be focusing on why young people are voting for them, not on why you won't?

brokenangel · 03-09-2022 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565004#Comment_119565004

It’s the last name on the list as someone described it to me

If you see it’s the young voters who are running after SF, the ones born into the Celtic Tiger when everything was available and handed to them for free. No hardship

Now they have got older and suddenly nobody is handing them a free house etc

They never got told no, now they are and can’t handle it. SF now are telling them yes to everything and they believe it.

Rude awakening will happen very soon

shirrup · 03-09-2022 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565124#Comment_119565124

What an absolute load of baloney, the young people complaining about the housing crisis are expecting everything for "free"? I would say you're way out of touch, and haven't the foggiest what you are actually talking about, but there's no need. It's there in your post.

brokenangel · 03-09-2022 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565316#Comment_119565316

Not really and you will find on the housing thread a lot of people have said the same.

As usual jump on one word in a post and ignore the rest.

So change the word from "free" to "cheap"

Any comment on the rest of the post?

Fionn1952 · 03-09-2022 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565355#Comment_119565355

Would it be a lot of people in privileged positions like ourselves who already own their own home saying the same thing over on the housing thread, BA?

It is hardly the kids spending 60% of their income on rent, funding the retirements of the older generations so they've no prospect of ever owning a home like we do saying it.

It is definitely spending €3 on a cup of coffee that is the problem I suppose? Or those pesky avocados at a euro a go!

brokenangel · 03-09-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565412#Comment_119565412

Home ownership in Ireland is over 70% at the moment and growing in Ireland.

People are buying houses every day of the week, the majority of houses built are bought by people to live in.

All discussed in detail on the housing thread.

This is a discussion about SF, maybe you can answer, do you think people are voting for SF because of the quality of TD they have?

Fionn1952 · 03-09-2022 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565443#Comment_119565443

If you read back to the previous page, you'll see I already shared my opinion on SF. To make it very clear, I 100% agree with you that they're playing on easy mode by promising all things to all people. Much like Blanch won't convince them by going on about the Provos, you won't fare any better by pretending the problems they're having don't exist.

Blanket statistics on house ownership are about as much use as a chocolate teapot when we're specifically talking about the cohort which would have the lowest ownership levels. Break it down by age and it isn't so rosy;

home ownership declined from over 68% of 25-34 year olds in 1991 to 42% in 2011 and to just 30% in 2016, and among 35-44 year olds it fell from over 82% in 1991 to less than 61% in 2016.

https://publicpolicy.ie/papers/housing-in-ireland-changing-trends-in-headship-rates-and-tenure-by-age-group/#:~:text=This%20decline%20in%20home%20ownership,less%20than%2061%25%20in%202016.

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/home-ownership-by-the-age-of30-nearlyhalved-in-space-of-a-generation-40411353.html

Unless you think there has been a massive upswing since 2016 (the second link suggests there has not), the only cohort which has increased home ownership since '91 is the 65+ group. Go ahead and keep telling the kids there's no housing crisis and wondering why they won't vote for more of the same though.

brokenangel · 03-09-2022 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565503#Comment_119565503

You tried to have a pop at me because you are aware I own a house. The fact is home ownership is 70% and increasing, so why are you having a pop at someone for owning a house?

I never said we had no housing crisis, the opposition in fact and I have been clear I want all parties to stop blocking houses.

Anyway it seems you want to drag the thread down into attacking posters. Pity it was a decent discussion. Best of luck to you!!!

Fionn1952 · 03-09-2022 5:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565542#Comment_119565542

I also own a house, BA. I'd suggest you read my post again, I referred to people in privileged positions LIKE OURSELVES. I'm not taking a pop at people who own houses, I'm pointing out that our home ownership isolates us from the worst effects of the housing crisis, and perhaps we should be aware of that privilege rather than pulling the patronising, 'the kids don't know they're born' nonsense, suggesting that the problem was that they are spoiled rather than a real problem with housing. Don't you think it is somewhat telling that I was able to say with almost absolute certainty that you were a home owner despite us having never discussed the matter, having no idea what age cohort you fall into or any idea of your socioeconomic background? Rather than to insult you, my point is purely that you project a complete lack of empathy for those who aren't in as good a position as us.

Your position that they're all spoiled Celtic Tiger babies flies in the face of your acknowledgement that there is a housing crisis. Though on the Celtic Tiger privilege point, I'd be curious as to when you bought your own house, and how much Celtic Tiger privilege was responsible for that too?

You didn't seem to take much issue with it until I presented actual statistics that you didn't like the look of.....then all of a sudden you're off looking for offense to avoid addressing the numbers presented.

I've presented evidence that home ownerships has dropped by over 55% among 25-34 year olds and over 25% among 35-44 year olds. You've yet to present anything on your claimed 70% and increasing ownership numbers....and even if it was the case, increasing ownership among older cohorts isn't going to improve the lot of those under 44 is it?

I still don't think SF are the answer (regardless of what the question is, they're a hot mess), and I sure as sh*t don't want to suffer them in government because those considering voting for them are being dismissed as social welfare leaches, Provo supporters or spoiled Celtic Tiger kids (not attributing all of those to you of course).

brokenangel · 03-09-2022 5:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565778#Comment_119565778

I never said any of the accusations you are making. Home ownership is at 70% and increasing. Only so many old people can buy houses. A thread is dedicated to housing and all of this is discussed in detail

I was responding to a question and just mentioned housing, if you look at the whole SF spin they tell everyone what they want to hear.

Even when none of it adds up, for people who only seen the Celtic tiger this is what they want to hear and from what I can see are incapable of seeing the obvious problems. Like more tax for everyone over 100k yet saying they will hire more doctors

Plus the tax the Rick and then get rid of LPT

Time will only tell if the young manage to cop on to the BS, if not we will see a SF government of some sort and to me that will end up in a huge disaster for everyone in ireland

Fionn1952 · 03-09-2022 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565888#Comment_119565888

The actual substance of your post, I clearly agree with, BA! I've said repeatedly that SF promise all things to all people. I don't know what accusations I've levelled at you that you're denying. The only thing I've said is that the, 'they don't know they're born' rhetoric dogs butter no parsnips......you literally dismissed their concerns as them being spoiled Celtic Tiger babies who've wanted for nothing?

You can keep saying home ownership is at 70% and increasing, but I've pointed out that home ownership has collapsed for under 45s, so what good is pointing out that older people are increasing their home ownership doing for those affected, BA?

As I said, the young will hopefully cop on before we end up with a SF government, but it will be by pointing out these contradictions, not by moaning about the Provos or telling them they're all spoiled Celtic Tiger babies who don't understand hardship.

brokenangel · 03-09-2022 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566385#Comment_119566385

I have given an opinion, am I saying every person born into the Celtic tiger is the same? No

Am I seeing a number of people who think everything comes easily? Yes

When I started out work, you slogged to buy a house. When I bought my first house I had a chair, a tv that was maybe 14” that’s Somone gave me free and was 10 years old and a single bed, the first winter I could afford one fill of oil so I used it when required

Before that when I rented I had an old black and white tv with me as saved

Now you seen a poster on here who said he couldn’t buy in Dublin, when I pointed out he could, the area was classed as a “Kip”

Then when he gave the numbers he was holding back 15k to buy furniture 🤦‍♂️

Now that’s just an example and as I said it’s on the housing thread

Buy getting back to the main point, just listen to SF, no matter what the topic is they give the popular answer. Even when something happens they wait to see what the polls are saying. Look at Ukraine while they waited to see what happened and what the reaction was and then scrambled to delete any connections

In government you don’t have that luxury to just wait and see, when we have seen SF come out unrehearsed that’s when you start to see the real views of the party and it ain’t good

I don’t moan about the provos, look at the PIRA thread on here and a few people constantly want to drag in SF. That’s done with now, if they drag it up I will comment of course but in terms of politics let’s judge them on that

Based on actually politics they are woeful. The north is terrible and housing is worse with SF running it and no idea what to do. In the republic they are determined to make the housing crisis worse, but then if they do get elected they have no idea how to fix it. It’s just a shambles

The health representative was on talking about hiring doctors, when pointed out doctors wouldn’t come because of the tax increase it was like he never heard about it before and just pointed the finger 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

blanch152 · 05-09-2022 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564540#Comment_119564540

You find it hysterical that someone is pointing out the truth?

If SF are managing to fool the youth about what they are, that shouldn't stop others from continuing to point out the truth about them. Just because SF are winning a propaganda battle with fake news isn't a reason to give up.

blanch152 · 05-09-2022 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565106#Comment_119565106

You have a point in what you say, but it would be a sad day if one was to stop speaking truths just because people were believing falsehoods.

Fionn1952 · 05-09-2022 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573065#Comment_119573065

I'd suggest it would be better to address the falsehoods they're believing than repeating truths that they're already aware of and don't particularly care about.

You're not addressing their falsehoods with truths, you're completely ignoring them and continuing to shout about a totally unrelated truth.

Do you genuinely believe that there is anyone on the island of Ireland who isn't aware of SF's history with the Provos? That they're continuing to express an interest in voting for them suggests their priorities are elsewhere.

Call me cynical but like I said, I'm an outcomes guy. I'm more interested in what will stop them getting into office than my own personal moral outrage.

is_that_so · 07-09-2022 8:48am

Opinion piece which seems to come from that demographic that SF are targeting. A bit muddled in places but it does clearly show the desire to give them a chance, even if that desire is ABFFFGLAB. Therein lies the real risk to a SF-led government, not being able to deliver on all of those promises.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2022/09/07/sinn-fein-speaking-the-language-of-my-generation/

The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

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