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NASA's ROAD BACK TO THE MOON - Very Big rocket Launch - 2nd Sept 18:48

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  • 28-08-2022 10:28pm
    #1
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight



    Follow the livestream on ESA Web TV starting at 12:30 CEST (11:30 BST).

    The European Service Module – or ESM – provides for all astronauts’ basic needs, such as water, oxygen, nitrogen, temperature control, power and propulsion. Much like a train engine pulls passenger carriages and supplies power, the European Service Module will take the Orion capsule to its destination and back.

    ESA’s agreement with NASA to supply the modules gives Europe three astronaut seats on future moon missions, which Parker says are likely to be on Artemis 4 and 5, though with discussion still underway it is still possible a European could fly on the third Artemis mission


    [rant]

    It's not the biggest or most powerful rocket ever built. Saturn V, N1 and Starship each beat it in on one or more vital statistics.

    Lots of jobs created in key voting states for re-use of Shuttle era leftovers sitting in warehouses for years and years.

    NASA doc https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/sls_reference_guide_2022_v2_print_0.pdf

    Page 45 lists the flights the engines have been on before. These reusable engines will be discarded into the ocean.

    Engine 2045: STS - 89, 95, 92, 102, 105, 110, 113, 121, 118, 127, 131, 135

    Engine 2056: STS - 104, 109, 114, 121

    Engine 2058: STS - 116, 120, 124, 119, 129, 133

    Engine 2060: STS - 127, 131, 135

    Page 52 lists the Reused Shuttle SRB segments. They were never worth reusing as steel is relatively cheap.

    [/rant]

    Post edited by Capt'n Midnight on


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,006 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    I really hope this goes well for NASA and is a big success for them.

    We should really be heading to Mars now not the moon but let's get back to the moon and then on to Mars.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    For those interested. NASA SPACE FLIGHT 9 private, voluntary ) are live covering ARTEMIS 1 launch on youtube here. Well worth subscribing to there channel, also cover all the SPACEX events and much more more


    The other link below is the official NASA live event .. Started now




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Hey @Capt'n Midnight .. could you change the title to this thread, maybe to "ROAD BACK TO THE MOON ( Live Today 29.08.2022 - Artemis 1 launch 1.30pm )" or similar .. attract newbs etc :D

    Only us space nerds get what SLS is :D



  • Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭pjordan


    10 min hold on 40 mins due to engine 3 bleed problem



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Man, I hope this works. It's SO great to see proper f*cking HUGE rockets again.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,803 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Not just NASA as ESA will have modules on some of the future launches.

    Edit: As I now see is well documented in the OP 🤦



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭exaisle


    Launch is delayed due to a problem with hydrogen in Engine number 3. When the endineers did a pre-flight test, it didn't return the correct temperature and they're working on a troubleshooting plan.

    Gotta think that if it was the Russians, some political prisoner would be sent out with a box of matches and told to light the blue touch paper.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭MayoForSam


    Scrubbed for today, engine bleed issue that couldn't be resolved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    "At 8:35 am NASA makes it official: scrub for the day. Not clear if they can try again on Sept. 2."



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight



    Without the European Space Agency this mission would be over in two hours and six minutes.

    Because after the Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage* sends the Orion towards the Moon, The European Service Module – or ESM – provides for all astronauts’ basic needs, such as water, oxygen, nitrogen, temperature control, power and propulsion. Much like a train engine pulls passenger carriages and supplies power, the European Service Module will take the Orion capsule to its destination and back. The ESM is based on ESA's ATV (Autonomous Transfer Vehicle) which has previously flown cargo to the ISS.


    *It's just an elongated Centaur / RL10 a combination which has been the USA's goto high energy upper stage on just about everything smaller than Saturn V since 1962. Orion which cost $20Bn to develop uses the same heat shield technology as Apollo. If you include the contracts signed for future flights at a flyaway cost of $2Bn per SLS and $2Bn per Orion and the costs of Aries and other cancelled programs there's very little new engineering tech to show for $60Bn. About the only deliverable is votes for Senators.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Pfff Russian's don't use matches.

    They use PZU's "pyrotechnic ignition device" Each chamber (Soyuz has 32 chambers) contains a pair of igniters which have easy to catch fire chemicals on the top of oil soaked birch sticks. "technicians working from an access bridge under the pad manually insert wooden sticks in a shape of a T-bar into each combustion chamber."



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭MayoForSam


    Still just about on track but another leak today during LH2 fueling. Hydrogen is a pain-in-the-ass to work with and too leaky by far, also goes to show what happens when you try and integrate systems from too many independent contractors, leaks galore.

    Fingers crossed for a launch at 7:17pm Irish time.




  • Registered Users Posts: 39,874 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Just said on the NASA live channel that the engineers have recommended a no go for today to the top brass. I think it’s Monday is the next chance to try to launch but I know it’s stuff they want to get right but it’s not helping the impression of a launch vehicle which I’m not a fan a anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,851 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    You'd wonder how anything taking 10 years to build and 10s of Billions of dollars to develop can still spring a leak on the day....

    It's jarring to hear the NASA commentators using kilometers and litres, almost refreshing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,874 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    so the launch director is holding off on scrubbing the launch just yet. The launch director wants to have more discussion about it.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The Mars Climate Orbiter was lost because Lockheed Martin didn't use metric software, though NASA should have caught that, and the guidance people's advice to do symmetrical burns was ignored, which would have cancelled the effect, instead it was off by 57Km when it got to Mars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,874 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    And it’s been officially called for today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭aidanodr




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    One has to ask the Q. This SLS as far as I know is "cobbled together" with old parts and engines, from Shuttle Era as far as I am aware. You would have to wonder was this wise and why not contract SPACEX raptor engines instead seeming as SPACEX will be attempting similar?

    SLS is now extremely over budget apparently plus one would also wonder are NASA still not over the shuttle accidents and potentially too cautious to the point it may never launch?

    OF COURSE - I fully understand space is very hard. The shuttle in its day had to be rolled back. Once Artemis does fly all this will be forgotten .. had something gone wrong it would be remembered for a long time



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    So it seems this is it for the mo re SLS

    "Pending post-MMT presser for official words, but the word going around the SLS circles cites evaluations of an October 17 target. So that'd be a rollback to the VAB."



  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭Poulgorm


    I don't understand this SLS project at all. Despite using a lot of previously developed engine technology, it is costing billions. And if it is successfully launched, it is doomed anyway, because building new rockets for each launch is financially unviable.

    If SpaceX are successful with their Starship, the SLS is doomed to the scrapheap.

    Yet nobody in America seems to be questioning the SLS programme.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight



    1960's Centaur and Saturn V upper stages were to be relativity cheap and quick because they built on the 1950's hydrogen work for the USAF Lockheed CL-400 Suntan. (The USAF also looked at Boron based fuels. Money wasn't an issue for them.) Centaur and it's RL10 are workhorses that have been flying since 1962.

    The shuttle was to be relativity cheap and quick because they built on the hydrogen tech from Saturn V, mostly the J-2.

    Ares etc. were to be relativity cheap and quick because they built on the tech from the Shuttle.

    SLS was to be relativity cheap and quick and low risk because it built on the tech from the Shuttle. But they threw away all the stuff that looked easy and found out it wasn't.

    Shuttle-C could have put 77 tonnes into LEO while reusing everything off the shuttle without modification except the wings and fuselage of the orbiter. There were even plans to modify two remaining orbiters. Program was cancelled in 1990 because the RS-25 engines would have cost $38m each ($86m adjusted for inflation). Instead for SLS a cheaper simpler non-reusable version, the RS-25F engine was developed with the help of three decades of progress in metallurgy and 3D printing and now cost $145m* each including R&D. ( the second batch only cost $100m )



    Back in the days of Saturn V there was a need to inject money into the economy and the high priority and importance and sheer national pride of the project lead to new levels of quality control in addition to technical advances in electronics and when the program was over the workforce was able to take this ethos and knowledge into the industry. That was the real payoff of the Apollo program. Now over half of NASA's budget goes to US aerospace ie. competitors of Airbus who ironically are building the Service Module.

    SLS and it's predecessor programs by contrast have been dragging on since before the Shuttle was cancelled, it isn't the cold war anymore and everyone and their dog knows the main purpose is to get Senators from the deep south re-elected. It's been dragging on so long that SpaceX have come out of nowhere by comparison.


    *Falcon Heavy can put 63 tonnes into LEO for $150m vs 70 tonnes for Block 1 of SLS , it can't launch Orion and it's service module though. The next block of SLS should have better performance. A Starship refuelled in orbit would completely own it though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭3d4life




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    November 14. .. NASA will have a 69-minute launch window starting at 1207 EST (0507 UTC). If the flight succeeds, the SLS will send the Orion capsule into lunar orbit where it will spend about 25 days in space before splashing back down to Earth on December 9.

    The SRB's are reaching their use by date.


    Best comment

    Could this be a new fall (sorry) tradition ?

    Every November the SLS is rolled out to the pad, and if you see its shadow then it's 1 more year of testing



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,436 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Storm / Hurricane Nicole expected to hit Florida coast around 1am Thursday, NASA decided to leave rocket on launchpad, but ...

    edit:

    The Nov. 16 launch is scheduled to occur during a two-hour window that opens at 1:04 a.m. EST (0604 GMT). If Artemis 1 does get off the ground on that date, the mission will end with an ocean splashdown by Orion on Dec. 11.

    If Artemis 1 cannot fly on Nov. 16, the next launch opportunity will come on Nov. 19, NASA officials said.

    Post edited by Quantum Erasure on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    If they get lucky the storm will take out the rocket and there'll be another year of pork.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,782 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    Post to follow thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,444 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Lets hope it gets off the ground.

    The 1st hurdle is to get the approval to launch with the damage from the hurricane to part of the rocket.

    The 2nd hurdle is to get it fully fuelled which has been the downfall the past few times.

    The 3rd hurdle is the weather which is looking good.

    the final hurdle is getting up on time to see the launch.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    And the leaks and the best before date of the SRB's, ain't over till the fat lady sings.


    The reason the rocket costs $2 Billion is because they spent extra to minimise the risks.

    For that sort of money you could buy one of these


    And the rest of the entire Indian space program

    And that's not counting the development costs for SLS



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