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Politicians who are Landlords

  • 01-09-2022 9:20pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2


    Recently some politicians have been outed for not declaring their multiple properties

    The usual response seems to be

    I'm sorry I forgot

    lol

    The only reason they are sorry is because they have been caught !

    Noone is ever sory until they have been caught !

    These are the people who are running our country and dictating our incomes and pensions

    🤬



«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Vote them out then.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Many TDs are landlords (of pubs), or teachers, or lawyers of one sort or another. That accounts for the majority, I believe.

    TDs who run property empires (11 properties - an empire?), or are even accidental landlords, should be very vigilant that they a) apply the regulations and b) make sure they declare their personal interests if ever the speak or lobby on property matters.

    Also the RPTB should alert registered landlords that their registration needs renewing, and ask if they still own the property, still let the property, and show the transfer details if not. They should then follow up with the new owner if appropriate.

    RPTB need more teeth and resources, and much heavier penalties for defaulters. An annual registration should apply.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    So you are supporting more institutionalised politicians then. A guaranteed salary from once they get elected to when they retire and a pension to boot. Then there is the 20k to 40k it takes to get elected so factor that in as well. The result - no landlords, no business owners, no investors, teachers, lawyers, accountants etc.... just people dedicated to public service.

    Well you are entitled to your opinion, but I doubt many voters would agree.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    No government minister should have any property dealings, especially during a housing crisis. We cannot have decision makers curating legislation that lines their pockets while making things worse for the public. At best its a blatant conflict of interest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Which business sectors are they not allowed to be in.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,014 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Government ministers set income tax rates, which directly affects them,

    They introduce legislation around climate change, motoring offences, health care issues, alcohol licensing laws etc. etc. etc.

    All there are potentially conflicts of interest.

    Your point about property is nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I'd suggest all of them. They claim being a politician is a 24/7 job anyway. Sadly we know there are at least a few always willing to take advantage.

    If you work for the lottery you can't buy a ticket, just because it could look iffy if you won. I don't see why politicians can't do similar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Nothing stopping anybody running for election. If people don't like it do somthing about it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    During a crisis a minister should not be in a position to push for legislation that will enrich himself while not necessarily making the crisis any better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In fairness its all been populist policies that caused this. They've just given people what they asked for.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,014 ✭✭✭Allinall


    So in a health crisis, the minister for health should not be in a position to push for legislation to alleviate the crisis, even if the policy doesn't work,in case they or their family benefit?


    Utter nonsense.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Then please please do share who's the arbiter who is going to define what "make the crisis better" and while you're at it do feel free to explain what should replace the current democracy as is not good enough for your standards either (since apparently the power to vote out politicians is not enough).



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You will not have a TD left if you start excluding them for property interests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Maybe that explains why we are in a decade long housing crisis.

    I think you're mixing me up with someone else. We simply need hard conflict of interest rules and strong penalties for anyone seen to be working for their own interests. Changing the guard will not change a thing if we don't bring in true accountability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭rock22


    It would be reasonable to ask the Taoiseach ( and incoming Taoiseach) not to appoint any landlord to cabinet while this housing crisis continues.

    It is impossible for anyone, including landlords, to act against their own interests in government. It is clear that this housing crisis has continued this long because every reasonable suggestion to help solve it has been resisted by this and the previous government.

    SO, no problem being a TD and landlord but no input into government decisions around housing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The flaw in this logic is the Govt policies are mostly anti landlord and have been for decades.

    They only favor institutional landlords. Politicians, can make it work because they have high income to weather any financial issues.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    There should be no bar on politicians having financial interests (we all need to make money) but the problem with what has happened recently is twofold:

    1. politicians are legislators and should be seen to be following the legal basics required within their business interests. If they cannot follow basic legal processes then they are unfit to legislate.
    2. politicians as legislators and rule-makers should make it abundantly clear of any conflict of interest and, where necessary, abstain should any conflict arise where they could financially benefit from the change. That the likes of Troy and Donnelly pushed for legislation and voted on matters that would directly benefit them but failed to make it clear of the personal benefit. If they do not declare their interests to SIPO then there should be a strong punishment rather than the weak procedures in place currently.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That someone forgets to pay the PRTB registration, only hurts them. They can't use it till they pay up. The Tenant never pays anything and can always use it. Its a minor issue, at the most.

    However, there is a pattern of behavior that is less than ideal. Then that should be investigated.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It is a minor issue but a legal requirement. Politicians should be seen to be following the legislation they bring in. Why should "regular" landlords follow the laws if politican landlords don't?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They mostly do. But the RTB systems are archaic.

    Like I said it changes nothing for the tenant.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,421 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    I dont have a problem with one having a couple of properties, but 11 is ridiculous.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm not at all defending the RTB. However, we can't have a transparent and trustworthy process if those making the rules are bending and breaking them whenever they can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    How many properties did he register and how many did he not register.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    We only found out because it was investigated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭rock22


    You must live in a very different universe to most of us

    No certainty of tenure for tenant, no cap on rent increases, no ban on evictions. All things the past two recent governments refused to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Where will you get properties from where you can't evict people and there is no income coming in from them, but you still have to pay all the costs, fees expenses and repairs. Why not just buy a place and leave it empty and not have all the hassle and expense.

    The problem tenants have is supply. So I'm asking where will this supply come from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 235 ✭✭thedart


    Jennifer Carroll MacNeill would be a good housing minister. She hasn’t her head in the trough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    They're being paid handsomely to do a job.

    If I set up a business that diminished my ability to perform my current duties my boss would have none of it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That's avoiding the question. You'd make a great politician.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don't think law makers should have any conflicts of interest. If they're a housing Minister they shouldn't be a landlord. If they're the education minister they shouldn't be a teacher etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Would a landlord not know the business better? the same as a teacher in terms of education?

    I know it doesn't always work out like that, like very few TD have legal experience etc.

    If the TD is making good decisions and not in favour of their own interests does it make a difference?

    Does anyone think all the law changes made in the last few years in terms of tenants has been to the benefit of Landlords?

    With the numbers of LL getting out of the market they would say no.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Knowing the business as an insider is not a requirement to be a minister. They need to be open minded and have good analytical and critical thinking skills and be prepared to do the work of reading up on their brief and meeting with all the stakeholders.

    Being one of the stakeholders themselves will inevitably bias their position. Not always that they'd purposely act to enrich themselves, but in a more heuristic way



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So if they move from education to housing they should sell all their property.

    I don't know how you would work that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭rock22


    No. During a housing crisis of unprecedented extent, no landlord should be in government because all members of government take collective responsibility for decisions. They should not be appointed to government while this crisis remains.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So if you don't want landlords who will you rent from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭rock22




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That's where this all ends up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    The RTB online system is a mess and they don't send out reminders when registration is due.

    This leads to landlords inadvertently missing registration dates.

    If they ran it like the motor tax system where you just go online with a unique pin and pay in a simple transaction compliance could be improved.

    Just a thought but maybe part of the reason politicians are over represented in the landlord business is that it is the sort of business you can be in while attending to your political role.

    You just invest the capital and hand over the day to day management to an agent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,022 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Is there a democracy in the world that bans elected representatives from being property owners? I don't think there is.

    Of course, its a dumb idea to go down that route.

    All one needs to do is declare what assets and properties they have from the get-go, which is what Irelands requires of their politicians. However, SIPO should be given more powers to audit, investigate and check this out as well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,022 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    What about if they are a property owner?

    What if they are a renter?

    Each of those circumstances could be viewed as a conflict of interest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Exactly, conflicts are bound to happen. They walk into a pub and have a pint, well thats a conflict because they set the price of a pint. It goes down to that level in reality.

    If you want to find a conflict of interest you will, ask LL now and they will tell you the government are screwing them over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,022 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Politicians are people too, unless we want them to live in a cave and exist on soup and water.

    Some may be quite successful before they enter politics, and some be living in a council house.

    It doesn't matter if they are a renter, a landlord or whatever so long as it's all declared and above board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    I made this point before, unless you take a politician and pay them from the moment they decide to become one, a steady wage all the time till they retire then they could run no other business

    Thats won’t happen and as we seen TD get voted out on a whim like a revolt vote. They have to have other interests to make sure they are looked after



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Owning your own property or renting a property are common experiences in our society. Most people will have been renters at least at some point in their life, and the majority of the population (up to now) have been property owners at some point in their life.

    Home ownership rates are consistently (well above) 60% across the general population.

    What percentage of the Irish population are landlords?

    Well 1 in 4 of our legislators are landlords, https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/register-of-members-interests/ but out of the general population, I'd put it below 5% (Can't find a statistic on this)

    Conflicts of interest are not all equal. If you are representing your constituents, then having interests that align with your constituents makes you a better representative. If your interests are opposed to your constituents, then that's a conflict of interest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If there was a proper representation of the general public in the Dail, then conflicts of interests would balance out. The problem is Half of all TDs are millionaires.

    Plato's republic had the congress decided by randomly selecting citizens to be legislators, like how we do jury service at the moment.

    The 'Citizens assembly' was an extension of this and it worked really well.

    I would be happy if the senate was completely replaced with a citizens assembly who are charged with reviewing any laws before they can be enacted.

    The assembly would be short term panels of 100+ people drawn from all walks of life, assembled from the general population, and paid by the state while they serve, and then they go back to their previous occupation afterwards.

    This is the way to hold governments to account.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its only a conflict of interest if your interests conflict with the interests of those you are representing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Anyone can become a TD, so for me I don’t see the point in complaining about people who have bothered to become one and from what I can see the majority want to help people

    I always think of Ricky Jervais and the general public comments, was it to remove the warning from bleech? Just a joke of course



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    You do understand landlords are people? If you are a TD in the Dail you represent landlords as much as any other form of house holder including the homeless


    If TDs are favouring landlords like you suggest, they are doing a very bad job as landlords increasingly get out of the market. The only people this favours is anyone in a position to buy/first time buyers. For anyone renting and not in a position to buy the government policies and general public attitude itself towards landlords is an absolute disaster( which this thread is an example of). All its done is reduce the supply of rental accommodation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,022 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    According to the CSO in 2020, there were 165,000 landlords in Ireland. That is a snapshot in time, as some would have been ex-landlords. That is still a sizeable proportion of the population.

    There are more landlords than there are teachers in the country, should we exclude teachers being TD's too, in case they end up as Minster for Education?

    After all, its not a common experience..


    Is there any country in the world that forbibds politicians to be landlords? Any?



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