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Politicians who are Landlords

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don't think law makers should have any conflicts of interest. If they're a housing Minister they shouldn't be a landlord. If they're the education minister they shouldn't be a teacher etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Would a landlord not know the business better? the same as a teacher in terms of education?

    I know it doesn't always work out like that, like very few TD have legal experience etc.

    If the TD is making good decisions and not in favour of their own interests does it make a difference?

    Does anyone think all the law changes made in the last few years in terms of tenants has been to the benefit of Landlords?

    With the numbers of LL getting out of the market they would say no.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Knowing the business as an insider is not a requirement to be a minister. They need to be open minded and have good analytical and critical thinking skills and be prepared to do the work of reading up on their brief and meeting with all the stakeholders.

    Being one of the stakeholders themselves will inevitably bias their position. Not always that they'd purposely act to enrich themselves, but in a more heuristic way



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So if they move from education to housing they should sell all their property.

    I don't know how you would work that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭rock22


    No. During a housing crisis of unprecedented extent, no landlord should be in government because all members of government take collective responsibility for decisions. They should not be appointed to government while this crisis remains.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So if you don't want landlords who will you rent from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭rock22




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That's where this all ends up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,310 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    The RTB online system is a mess and they don't send out reminders when registration is due.

    This leads to landlords inadvertently missing registration dates.

    If they ran it like the motor tax system where you just go online with a unique pin and pay in a simple transaction compliance could be improved.

    Just a thought but maybe part of the reason politicians are over represented in the landlord business is that it is the sort of business you can be in while attending to your political role.

    You just invest the capital and hand over the day to day management to an agent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,726 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Is there a democracy in the world that bans elected representatives from being property owners? I don't think there is.

    Of course, its a dumb idea to go down that route.

    All one needs to do is declare what assets and properties they have from the get-go, which is what Irelands requires of their politicians. However, SIPO should be given more powers to audit, investigate and check this out as well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,726 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    What about if they are a property owner?

    What if they are a renter?

    Each of those circumstances could be viewed as a conflict of interest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Exactly, conflicts are bound to happen. They walk into a pub and have a pint, well thats a conflict because they set the price of a pint. It goes down to that level in reality.

    If you want to find a conflict of interest you will, ask LL now and they will tell you the government are screwing them over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,726 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Politicians are people too, unless we want them to live in a cave and exist on soup and water.

    Some may be quite successful before they enter politics, and some be living in a council house.

    It doesn't matter if they are a renter, a landlord or whatever so long as it's all declared and above board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    I made this point before, unless you take a politician and pay them from the moment they decide to become one, a steady wage all the time till they retire then they could run no other business

    Thats won’t happen and as we seen TD get voted out on a whim like a revolt vote. They have to have other interests to make sure they are looked after



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Owning your own property or renting a property are common experiences in our society. Most people will have been renters at least at some point in their life, and the majority of the population (up to now) have been property owners at some point in their life.

    Home ownership rates are consistently (well above) 60% across the general population.

    What percentage of the Irish population are landlords?

    Well 1 in 4 of our legislators are landlords, https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/register-of-members-interests/ but out of the general population, I'd put it below 5% (Can't find a statistic on this)

    Conflicts of interest are not all equal. If you are representing your constituents, then having interests that align with your constituents makes you a better representative. If your interests are opposed to your constituents, then that's a conflict of interest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If there was a proper representation of the general public in the Dail, then conflicts of interests would balance out. The problem is Half of all TDs are millionaires.

    Plato's republic had the congress decided by randomly selecting citizens to be legislators, like how we do jury service at the moment.

    The 'Citizens assembly' was an extension of this and it worked really well.

    I would be happy if the senate was completely replaced with a citizens assembly who are charged with reviewing any laws before they can be enacted.

    The assembly would be short term panels of 100+ people drawn from all walks of life, assembled from the general population, and paid by the state while they serve, and then they go back to their previous occupation afterwards.

    This is the way to hold governments to account.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its only a conflict of interest if your interests conflict with the interests of those you are representing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Anyone can become a TD, so for me I don’t see the point in complaining about people who have bothered to become one and from what I can see the majority want to help people

    I always think of Ricky Jervais and the general public comments, was it to remove the warning from bleech? Just a joke of course



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    You do understand landlords are people? If you are a TD in the Dail you represent landlords as much as any other form of house holder including the homeless


    If TDs are favouring landlords like you suggest, they are doing a very bad job as landlords increasingly get out of the market. The only people this favours is anyone in a position to buy/first time buyers. For anyone renting and not in a position to buy the government policies and general public attitude itself towards landlords is an absolute disaster( which this thread is an example of). All its done is reduce the supply of rental accommodation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,726 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    According to the CSO in 2020, there were 165,000 landlords in Ireland. That is a snapshot in time, as some would have been ex-landlords. That is still a sizeable proportion of the population.

    There are more landlords than there are teachers in the country, should we exclude teachers being TD's too, in case they end up as Minster for Education?

    After all, its not a common experience..


    Is there any country in the world that forbibds politicians to be landlords? Any?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its about 3% of the population who are landlords. Less than that if you exclude people who barely count, like those who rent a spare room to a student for part of the year

    Already, the Dail,are unrepresentative given that 25% of TDs are landlords

    Your last question, loads of places force elected officials and civil servants to 'recuse' themselves if they have a conflict of interest. Its not just a matter of declaring your interests, you have to recuse yourself from decisions where you have a conflict of interest.

    It's a matter of integrity and standards in public office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Statistics are misleading here.

    If you believe the real crisis is the lack of landlords, then you've been sold a pup unfortunately. If there were enough houses being built, lots of people currently renting, would have moved out into their own homes by now.

    There are hundreds of thousands of people who'd love to buy a home to live in, but the supply is so restricted that they are stuck renting at crazy rental prices

    The solution to the property crisis is to build more houses, but if you're a landlord, you like the high rents, and building more houses will cause rents to fall, and the increased in house prices to slow down



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If anyone can become a TD, why are half of the TDs millionaires?

    There would be a much more diverse demographic spread of TDs if it was possible for anyone to become a TD.

    I don't have an objection to having professional politicians who make a career out of it. They will almost inevitably become corrupted in some ways, which is why we need oversight that reigns in the power of the government and keeps them somewhat representative



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    6 billion government surplus this year.

    6 billion would build 50,000 houses

    50,000 houses would house about 150,000 people



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Violet Anne and others have proved that anyone can become a TD

    Yiu don’t need a degree or a Masters etc

    The fact is a lot of TD are also highly educated like Violet Anne so they make good business decisions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don't know about that, Violet Anne isn't just anyone. She's a very special type of character. She got elected as a total fluke, Sinn Fein were a rising star and ran candidates in every constituency but didn't bother properly vetting them. Violet Anne got elected as a protest vote because she was a Sinn Fein candidate. She's since left the party

    We'll see what happens to her at the next election. I doubt she'll be re-elected, hopefully not as it would indicate that her fringe views on vaccines and conspiracy theories are becoming entrenched in Clare.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Turkeys don't vote for Xmas.....very naive to believe landlords profiting off a housing crisis will vote to end it



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Why are the statistics misleading? The fact is small scale landlords are leaving the market. The exact type of landlord TDs tend to be. The fact that there is a mass exodus of this type of landlord from the rental market despite record rents tells you how anti landlord the government has been over the last decade. Government ministers/TDs in the Dail in general being landlords hasn't benefited small scale landlords one bit. Also changing the tax bands on rent will have minimal impact as its obvious increased returns hasn't stopped the exodus.

    I appreciate there are still larger property holders in the rental market but the bigger company's are ultimately funded by pension funds who want above inflation returns and have a investment horizon of 30 40 years. And the people who benefit from pensions are anyone with a private pension in Ireland. So going by your logic anyone with a private sector pension shouldn't be allowed be a TD.

    The reason we have a housing crisis is due to NIMBYs opposing housing developments in any remotely built up area. Its something TDs of all parties pander to. Politicians of all stripes will say they support building more houses but will also support objections to new developments due to the fear of losing votes from a group of well organised NIMBYs. Senior politicians in every major party SF,FG,FF etc have been vocal at some point in opposing new housing/apartment developments in their local area over the last few years. Landlords are the handy scapegoat, a distraction that enables people to ignore the issues presented by placating NIMBYs.

    Another problem speaking as a person who is renting is that most of the vocal people when it comes to the rental market are home owners who while well meaning are clueless out what they are talking about. A perfect example was Threshold campaigning to get rid of bedsits. Lovely idea in theory but ultimately its damaged the rental market. Bedsits still exist but they are now called house shares. Getting rid of formal bedsits just reduced the supply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    That's the problem. They've shown the can get 'forgetful'.

    We had a doctor as minister for health, it made no difference.

    Its no accident we are in a crisis for over a decade and the 1 in 4 landlord government create policy that favour property investors.

    While we need landlords because of the fix we are in we should be at least trying to move away from legislators using a need to make themselves profits.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,799 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The reason small, accidental, landlords are selling up is because the houses that were suffering from depressed prices are now at very high prices.

    Accidental landlords were forced to let their homes because the value was below their purchase price and they would suffer a loss - sometime more than their equity, meaning they would owe money and have nothing to show for it. Other small landlords can see the prospects changing and now is the time to quit while they are hugely ahead.



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