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Abuse of Referees

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,320 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    No judge is responsible for a referee getting a smack during an under 17s game. Get a grip here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭rpurfield


    I referee and if you think anyone is doing it for an income you need to wobble your head. Aside from the cost of fuel the amount of stuff I have changed around at home etc for games means it is barely worth it. Every county is short referees if you think they are all so bad maybe take it up so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    There is a section of our society who know the judges and courts are soft on crime so they can attack people on the streets etc.

    You can hit guards even these days and you dont go to jail , our soft on crime courts have got people used to little or no repercussions for attacking anyone be that referees , guards or your next door neighbor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It’s not stopping many of them though. Loads of referees in Louth, Meath and many other counties. I actually did referee in my younger days and never had an instance like this. Maybe I was better than many 😂😅



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I did referee and I did it for free. Mayb the money attracts the bad referees?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,852 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Do people honestly think that €40 to give up close to three hours of your time is attracting people? Added to that the abuse from both sides, the pressure to get every call right, out on all weathers, on your own most of the time.

    You also have to stay fit, fill in reports, have additional reports if any red cards are issued. Yearly renewal courses, having games cancelled with sometimes only hours to spare - having already let other plans go.

    And on top of all that the almost 1/4 chance of getting physically attacked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,621 ✭✭✭blackbox


    It has been suggested by some posters on this thread that some referees are useless and deserve to be abused and/ or assaulted.

    Some referees may be useless. This does not justify direct action by players or managers.

    I'm not a fan of rugby, but they have got the refereeing right. Why don't GAA and soccer follow their lead - they don't even have to invent a system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I don’t recall any poster saying that any referee deserves to be assaulted. Quite the opposite. I’ve seen people get agitated on the sidelines for many reason ie players not playing to instructions, wandering out of position and getting themselves into trouble with referees. I’ve also seen people getting agitated by what they see as bad referring and I’ve seen bad refereeing myself. There is no defence to committing assaults though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,993 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    This, in a nutshell. Toerag behavior being excused, Happens in other sports where officials are abused, and folks far too reluctant to call this out as disgraceful.

    Look at recent Wimby final. That toerag, Kyrgios and his behavour duing the match. Not a wimper from the commentary to call him out on it, or to defend the officials.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    I genuinely believe you should have a special assessment and license to coach underage kids...

    There is a lot of coaches in all sports who think they are managing county teams, international rugby teams etc...

    I had an interest in getting into coaching a few years back, but I realized I'd be a terrible influence on children/young teens because i can be way too competitive...and give the referee's stick and grow frustrated easily when things aren't done correctly...thankfully i realized this myself but i see folks just like me coaching underage teams and the level of respect for referee's and/or the rules are non-existent



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,993 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Just on this incident: I haven't read through the thread. What has been verified?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭celt262


    Maybe it does but i don't think they go out to referee a game badly, some are probably not cut out for it but get through the system due to the lack of referees. What sort of training did you do to become a referee i know they do a fitness test but what other assessments are done?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,508 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Imagine thinking that €50 to referee a game is a nice little earner, just how moronic do you have to be to think that?

    Give up your evenings to go out in all sorts of weather and take abuse from all sides for the princely sum of what, €16 an hour?

    As money making schemes go it isn't exactly the most efficient that I have ever heard of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,993 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Hoping this toerag faces an assault charge here, or will the GAA put it down as all part of the game....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    LOL, "no malice".

    Would hate to see what consider "with malice" to be....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    People quoting money referees get are victim blaming here and are too thick to realise it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 352 ✭✭Astartes


    Every ref in the country should take the weekend off, soccer included. Give fools who act like baby infants on the sideline something to think about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,993 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Act like cowardly thugs, you mean

    If AGS do not get involved here this will be a disgrace. This is a common assault issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Seven games a week ie schools and the league matches for several I know is not to be sneezed at. Some of these are very good referees but as I said it’s a nice little earner for a few who are poor enough.l



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Have a look in the mirror and don’t be so gullible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,508 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    You seem to have missed the point, its not exactly as simple as "referee 7 games and get €350".

    Referee 7 games, at varying times you have no flexibility on, outside in all weather, taking abuse from both sides constantly.

    As part time jobs go that is a really, really **** one, there are far easier and less stressful ways to earn money than that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I’m not denying that but some of them love it. I know several here who referee loads of games, some good and some not so good.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm not sure why we're discussing a nominal figure which is there to cover expenses in a discussion about the widespread abuse of referees. I'd bet that nobody here gets that kind of abuse when they are working, socialising or involved in sport.

    The fact is that there is a crisis in retaining referees nationally. The likes of the thug in Ballyforan is just another example (although on the more severe end of the scale).



  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭Shank Williams


    Nuts that there’s people on trying to defend the thick **** who assaulted ref. Usual GAA bulkshit waiting for them to start bleating about trial by social media now.

    Hes a thick **** and if he doesn’t suffer serious consequences this country is a joke.


    guarantee he’ll come out with some mental health excuse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Supporters will have to play a role in this too - demand better standards from their own supporters. Refs are a crucial part of the game and it's enjoyment. One of the most important facilitators and custodians of the game. Crucial. They're our referees. If we can't respect and prize the refs, the GAA's future is in trouble.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭callaway92




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Ah ya poor wee lad. Are you not getting your way?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Sorry, what?

    Honestly, look back at your posts in this thread. You’re bringing up refs being bad at their role and refs doing it for the money etc… this thread needs to be about what happened you absolute weirdo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,964 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    He doesn't know what you're talking about. Nobody does. He said bringing up the money is victim blaming and you said look in the mirror. So, are you saying he's blaming the victim somehow? It's nothing about him not getting his way. It's you trying to weasel out of making a fool of yourself by trying to be clever. And failing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Naughton is reported to have been released from hospital on Thursday following observation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,949 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Everything is connected and when you’re abusing your losing especially on a thread about abuse. Irony or what.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,964 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Right.

    Anyone who assaults a referee should be dealt with in the harshest way.

    But my point that bad refereeing is a symptom of crowd and individual anger stands. There are many instances of this but maybe the one that sticks out the most was the 2010 Leinster Final when the referee allowed what many described as a try in the last minute when Meath beat Louth.

    The crowd were extremely angry and the referee was jostled by the players and assaulted by a supporter. It was wrong but you also have to look at the reasons/symptoms of the anger. If you don’t deal with that then it is likely to be repeated. You can jail the aggressor but it will happen again and again until you also train referees properly. No referee will ever get everything right, I know, but there are those I see regularly who rarely get a lot right. I often hear supporters even of county teams saying “ that referee never gives us fair play” but are they entitled to assault him? Definitely not and again should be dealt with by the courts. Should more training be given to referees? Definitely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Also on the money issue. I know 4/5 in my own area who make a nice few bob out of refereeing and while there’s not a lot wrong with it the money is the reason they do it. And a few are not good at it in my opinion. Boards is about opinions and I’m entitled to give mine without being called names.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    If we've too many referees in Meath, our county board seem to be unaware of it, considering they're always reporting a shortage of refs;

    Clubs without referees will lose home advantage in adult and underage games - HoganStand



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Look into it a bit more and you will see the same names reffing school games and club juvenile matches.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    There is a shortage of refs right across the country. Nobody is making money out of refereeing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    This thread is about the abuse refs suffer - not about the money involved, not about instances in rugby, not about ref training. I don't know why that's so hard to understand. There are no connections to the abuse of refs. If you're interested in issues of ref money or rugby or training, make another thread.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Some excellent points here by Bannon. The culture of appeals and overturning refs decision en masse is also undermining refs. Very few of their decisions stick. Why wouldn't you abuse someone whose decision making is so easily overturned on technicalities? :


    Two-time All-Ireland football final referee John Bannon has said that he is "embarrassed" to have to continually address the disciplinary issues that blight the GAA.

    Speaking on RTÉ's Saturday Sport in the wake of an alleged assault on a match official earlier this week in Roscommon, the Longford man said that the association's disciplinary system also needs to become more bullet proof given the high volume of successful appeals that appear to occur.

    "I’m embarrassed as a GAA member involved in refereeing to have to comment on violence against match officials yet again," Bannon said.

    "It seems to get more highlighted when it happens in GAA but it is happening and it’s a regular occurrence and this isn't my first time to have to make comment on it.

    "It’s really disappointing and the disciplinary system is not a deterrent enough. We’ve had major [examples] of inter-county and club players that get suspended and are able to appeal and, on technicalities, get off.'

    "It seems to be an even bigger issue - as in a society issue in that there’s a lack of respect for guards and teachers and even security people on the street.

    "The GAA, in comparison to some other sports, have a bigger issue and it needs to be clamped down on this time."

    Speaking to RTÉ back in June, top inter-county football referee David Gough also took aim at the looseness in the GAA's disciplinary system.

    "The GAA have to take huge responsibility," he said.


    "Twenty years ago if I sent off a player, he got a one-month suspension, there was an outcry and he was missing two or three games.


    "Over the years the suspensions have eased and it’s a one-match [ban].


    "That’s just even with a player. The same with penalties for abusing referees, it used to be six months, a year, that has become a lot less.


    "Because referees haven't been supported fully by our rules and our disciplinary system, on some occasions referees don’t even bother reporting it because they know nothing is going to happen.


    "That is a major issue for the GAA. We need to set up a simpler system, the system now you’d need to be a barrister to deal with the appeals system and that’s why we end up with a number of cases in the DRA.


    "It’s not the right result on a lot of occasions, it’s to do with technicalities and law.


    "At the end of the day, it’s sport. Referees will make mistakes but they don’t make as many as are [deemed] by the appeals committee."


    In response to the alleged assault, all games in Roscommon have been postponed this weekend as referees have withdrawn their services. The matches will now be played on 16-18 September.


    Bannon felt it was the right call, and he also feels that the recruitment of officials has been dealt another severe blow.


    "We have to support the Roscommon referees committee. It’s a brave decision and it possibly wasn’t an easy decision, but I think it has been met with widespread support.


    "It’s going to really highlight the issue once and for all.


    "There’s a serious issue in the 32 counties," he continued.


    "This incident is not a Roscommon issue, it’s a 32-county issue.


    "We have a number of referees in the counties around me here, in Offaly, Longford and Westmeath, where they are doing four or five games at the weekend.


    "That’s not fair on the referee and that’s not fair on the teams because they can’t perform at the top level and some of them are even referring in different codes.


    "Volunteerism in general has become an issue and to me refereeing is almost volunteerism.


    "Some of them are getting 40 or 50 euro but it’s three or four hours to do one game between travelling to the match and doing the game.


    "Everyone is trying to recruit at the moment, but it’s a very difficult task. Highlighting issues like this is making it even more difficult."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Training of refs and officials is connected to abuse though. If you help referees more and then support them better you can then reduce issues around ref performance.

    Like how often do GAA referees meet to discuss rules and interpretation around rules to help their performance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,852 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    All refs do a qualification course and yearly refresher courses. Any rule changes are communicated before each competition and their are plenty of seminars and YouTube courses.

    A much bigger issue is that many players, mentors and spectators don't know the rules. They also have very little understanding of the reality of the rules in actual game play.

    But at the end of the day attacking anyone for doing a volunteer role is awful. Be it verbal or particularly physical. As was pointed out, that abuse wouldn't be accepted in any workplace

    Anyone who cannot control their emotions in a sporting context needs a serious reality check and should be nowhere near juvenile teams.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I agree with all that but we’ve been here many times before and it still continues. The causes of abuse of referees can be anything from mental health issues to bad decisions but nobody should be assaulted. There are loads of causes and they should be discussed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    There needs to be far more than thaat though. The seminars need to be monthly and higher ranked/rated refs should meet more than that. Discussing rules, look at clips from inter county games etc.

    Many players, coaches, spectators dont know the rules so how do you change that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,852 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    The cause of abuse can't ever be bad decisions. Totally unacceptable that a decision a person might disagree with, being completely biased (naturally) but in many cases based on lack of knowledge , should ever lead to abuse.

    If that is a trigger then the person needs a severe reality check.

    Have a word at half time, lodge a complaint after the game if needs to, but what will abusing the ref achieve? Nothing, its just the person unable to control their emotions.

    Those people shouldn't be anywhere near a sports team, particularly juvenile



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Bad decisions and abuse of a referee need to be separate conversations. It's an excuse.

    A bad performance or a bad decision by a ref is no excuse for abuse, nor is it good enough to bring it up in relation to abuse of a ref. Because it's an attempt to put some causality in relation to a ref's decision. That's terrible.

    The top refs meet regularly. And are in constant contact. Don't forget they're amateurs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The first line is your opinion. I think they are connected because something sparks it off. It’s no excuse for assault though as I’ve said often enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭deisedude


    More fool me for engaging with a troll but I'm currently in a twitter argument with some w*nker who said the ref faked it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,964 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    But this is the victim blaming that you were accused of. You haven't clarified at all what you were talking about before either with all the stuff about mirrors and what have you. You didn't address it at all.

    But let's take your assertion that the cause of a lot of the abuse is bad decisions but a ref. Have you ever been at a match and the ref blows a free for your team and the opposition supporters are screaming blue murder at the ref even though you think that he was entirely in the right to give the free? Now those people would argue their abuse is justified because the decision was bad. And that's the problem. You're working from the assumption that these supporters are being rational and judging the decision on its merits. They aren't.



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