Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

timmyntc · 02-09-2022 2:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558571#Comment_119558571

With Sino-American relations quite strained, the Chinese would likely reluctantly stay friendly to Russia than have to stand 'alone' against NATO. Between BRICS and SCO, a war or separatism movement between Russia and China would leave both incredibly isolated and ruin all the geopolitical work they have both been doing to create alliances to counter us in the West.

Would be great for us having Russia and China infighting amongst themselves, as together they are a much more difficult collective power to handle.

Brief_Lives · 02-09-2022 5:38pm

i know ye don't want a news dump... but there are some very interesting stuffs happening...

Brussels Sprout · 02-09-2022 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119561074#Comment_119561074

It's ok to post something as long as you give your opinion on the matter as well. (At least that's my understanding of the rules)

Count Dooku · 03-09-2022 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558571#Comment_119558571

Any better proof rather than Soros paid "locals"?

Gatling · 03-09-2022 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563652#Comment_119563652

Soros paid.

Oh how original.

Count Dooku · 03-09-2022 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563666#Comment_119563666

So no proof as usual

Fighting Tao · 03-09-2022 10:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563652#Comment_119563652

Are you attempting to implicate George Soros? If so, there is a conspiracy theory forum for that sort of nonsense. But be prepared, as you will be questioned on your odd beliefs.

jmreire · 03-09-2022 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558069#Comment_119558069

It may no longer be in living memory of tghe Finn's, but it has been passed down through the generation,,,I worked with a good few Finns, not of the war generation, but they are very knowledgeable about the winter war, and if Putins Russia ever disintegrated ( which is not beyond the bounds of impossibility , things being the way they are) I would not rule out a military or diplomatic operation to restore Finlands pre Russian invasion borders. And not just Finland, they are back bombing Idlib in Syria again, ( possibly in retaliation for increased attacks on Assad due to weakened defense position linked to the departure of Russian military assets? ? and rumors of skirmishers in Chechnya. Can Georgis be far behind if Putins war in Ukraine fails, and not only fails, but fails spectacularly?

Sam Russell · 03-09-2022 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563960#Comment_119563960

You could add Kaliningrad to that list as well, plus Transnistria in Moldova as well.

I would imagine quite a few places will seize upon a Putin defenestration - six floors appears to be average.

Podge_irl · 03-09-2022 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563960#Comment_119563960

Fair enough, attitudes will differ but I work in a Finnish company and am there a lot and this very much not my view. Its not even like the people stayed behind either, we are literally talking land will a fully Russian population.

Gatling · 03-09-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563799#Comment_119563799

Gotta love these guys who make a single post using a conspiracy theory and then run off never to be seen again

jmreire · 03-09-2022 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556090#Comment_119556090

And your extensive experience of Afghanistan comes from what? or where? Newspapers ?. TV?, You Tube etc? Or did you actually live there at some stage? Or have you ever even actually been there??? The vast majority of Afghans would welcome back the US with open arms, and the welcome mat. Now you cannot say that Russia would get the same reception. In the history of Afghanistan, the 20 years the US were there, were the best years Afghanistan ever had. Most Countries are invaded to be robbed and plundered ( see Rusia / Ukraine conflict currently) And it's what the Russians did during their time in Afghanistan too, and used pretty much the same methods that are now being used in Ukraine. But I don't see you mentioning the trail of death and destruction they left behind them. To this day, Afghanistan is littered with the rusting hulks of Russian tanks, APC's and aircraft, Land mines kill and maim Afghans ( and others ) on a daily basis, many year's after they were planted in their thousands by the Russian's before they left. You forgot to mention either how many of these selfsame mines the US and its Allies removed, and lost many lives in the process.

The US left behind a good foundation for Afghans to build a modern society on. That they failed to succeed was not for the want of trying by the US. Yeah, but go on, blame the Good Ol US of A for all the worlds ill's. If Russia or the Chinese ever got as far as Ireland, you would be damn glad to move to the US. And while you and everyone else are free to criticize the US, try the same thing in Russian or China ( and many other Country's as well) Presently, I'd recommend criticizing Putin publicly while in Russia, or even outside it as recent events have proved for proof of this statement.

jmreire · 03-09-2022 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564585#Comment_119564585

Talk to different Finns, get different opinions...but put it in this scenario. Putin Loses, and Finland Sweden etc. get full NATO membership, safe from further Russian ( or any other) depredations. If this happens, on one side ( Finnish) you will have a safe and secure Country, doing very well economically. On the other side, Russian side, what will you have? An economically defunct County, in bad standing with the rest of the world ( or the most important Country's therein) Now tell me after a few years of the planted Russians looking across the border at their successful Finnish Neighbours, while they try to survive on what's left of the Russian economy, and if a reunion referendum were to take place, what would the outcome be do you think ?

Count Dooku · 03-09-2022 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564719#Comment_119564719

So moving attention from the number of Chinese in Russia to Saint George is effectively admitting that you posted a lie from Soros funded propaganda sources

In reality, numbers are declining and even reputable Western sources can see it

https://thediplomat.com/2019/06/the-myth-of-a-chinese-takeover-in-the-russian-far-east/

Gatling · 03-09-2022 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565058#Comment_119565058

Sorros again.....

Your clearly posting tripe and likely has nothing to do with what's currently happening in Ukraine, likely one of these who denied the invasion of Ukraine actually happened

Podge_irl · 03-09-2022 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564880#Comment_119564880

I talk to plenty of Finns - I'm there 3 or 4 times a year. I'm sure some feel strongly about it, but literally none I have ever talked to do.

Finland has been a better country than Russia for a very long time, and whatever about being "planted Russians" they are Russian and have been there for close to 100 years at this point. I think if there was a referendum in the area to join Finland (and why on earth would there be?) it would fail dismally, and Finland would not have much interest in welcoming 100s of thousands of Russians as Finns. The fact that the local population more or less completely evacuated changes the landscape quite a bit - there is basically no local populace looking to rejoin.

jmreire · 03-09-2022 5:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565191#Comment_119565191

You could well be right,,,I was looking at a different scenario. And if Russia as an entity goes belly up after their Ukrainian mis adventure, things might conceivably get worse for them than they already are ( especially in Rural Russia ) In this case, a small Nr of nationalistic minded Finns might start a movement to reclaim their annexed property. It may not be very much on the agenda at the moment, but times and opinions change. Will be interesting to see 10 years down the road, what changes Vlada's adventures ( or misadventures , if you prefer) caused worldwide.

fash · 04-09-2022 7:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554281#Comment_119554281

Looks like Bob, from the scenario above, not only didn't get fired- but got a promotion - according to the Russians in any case:

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1566232361678897154?s=20&t=N7AHI7GevBpWykvlwqZegw

beggars_bush · 04-09-2022 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565191#Comment_119565191

The area has been Russiafied. Same will happen in Ukraine

amandstu · 04-09-2022 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119568509#Comment_119568509

I thought that was called genocide.You are happy with that?

pixelburp · 04-09-2022 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119568509#Comment_119568509

Current events suggest this may not be so easily achieved as it was in the days of dictatorships and absolute rule. When ethnicities and peoples could be transplanted like cattle.

And sure why would Russia need to Russify Ukraine anyway - aren't they supposed to be there as peace-keepers in the first place? To protect this oppressed russian speaking community they're so concerned for? I'm sure they're trying but given Kersons governor is currently, conveniently, on a junket in Russia I'd not worry too much.

pixelburp · 04-09-2022 5:57pm

70,000 demonstrators protest in Prague today, calling for an energy deal with with Russia and a half to arming Ukraine.

The protests were mostly the Far Right and Czech Communists, so not often those 2 poles meet, and not representative of the centre. It will be interesting to know if these protests become more mainstream as the winter bites - but I've seen no appetite, if even tacitly suggested along the mainstream margins. Gonna be an interesting few months, especially if Ukraine start making ground on the frontlines.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/04/czech-republic-prague-protest-sanctions-energy-crisis-gas-russia

Brussels Sprout · 04-09-2022 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570536#Comment_119570536

I've never seen the Horse-shoe theory of politics apply as much as I have since this invasion.

The far right: It makes perfect sense that they'd support Putin. He is the embodiment of what they like to see: A nationalist strongman who crushes dissent, liberalism, journalists etc etc

The far-left: These people are truly lost. The only two reasons I can think that they would support a man who is basically the opposite of all of their supposed beliefs is:

He opposes the USA and anything that opposes the USA must be correct
The Russian Federation is seen as the heir to the Soviet Union despite it now being a hyper-capitalistic kleptocracy that bears no resemblance to socialism (apart from the lack of civil and political freedoms)

Both of those are terrible reasons for supporting him and entirely inconsistent with their supposed beliefs.

pixelburp · 04-09-2022 7:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570846#Comment_119570846

For Czech Communists point 2 is probably the explainer there; but certainly with other far left groupings I think it's as simple as you say with point 1, and the logic that if the USA are involved? It must be bad and so the reflexive response is to back the other guy - even if it's Vladimir bloody Putin. You can probably extend the geopolitical umbrella to simply be NATO, and you get to the same place WRT to contrarian (but not necessarily far left) politicians like Mick Wallace, Boyd-Barrett et al.

nigeldaniel · 05-09-2022 11:45am

So the Ultra Left and the Far right are holding hands in the Czech... to quote Russel 'strange days are these'

Brussels Sprout · 05-09-2022 11:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573524#Comment_119573524

It's not just there. It's everywhere. Even here.

We don't have too much of a high-profile far-right (thankfully) in Ireland but the likes of the National Party are all behind Putin. At the same time the likes of PBP/Solidarity aren't explicitly supporting Russia but they're blaming the whole thing on the USA/NATO/EU and against supplying weapons to Ukraine (which is basically the same as supporting Russia as it's exactly what they would like to happen).

Personally, I think that people at the political extremes are likely getting a lot of their information from social media or non-reputable sites (since they don't trust "main stream media"). These in turn are chock full of disinformation - which in the case of this war often originates from Russian troll farms.

This is an interesting insight into how this dynamic works on the hard-left with a real world example:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdb5z/redfish-media-russia-propaganda-misinformation

ambro25 · 05-09-2022 12:53pm

It’s certainly the case in France, with left horseshoe extremity Mélenchon and right horseshoes extremity LePen consistently supporting Putin, to this day.

Brussels Sprout · 05-09-2022 3:16pm

Another chink of light is blacked out in Russia. Novoya Gazeta has its licence revoked

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/russian-court-revokes-newspaper-novaya-gazetas-license-2022-09-05/

Whatever about what's going on in Ukraine the repression in Russia has gone off the charts since February.

pixelburp · 05-09-2022 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574720#Comment_119574720

As darkly glib as it might be to speculate, I await news months later about Muratov's completely accidental falling out of a 20 story window. How are there people even trying to defend the actions of this state? But but NATO! But but Azov!

Meanwhile, the proposed referendum in Kherson to join Russia has been postponed; the Moscow-appointed officials running the region have decided maybe now's not the best time. I doubt it speaks any clue as to how that counter-offensive is going, but nor does it suggest Russia have smashed or halted it either.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/05/kherson-separatists-pause-poll-on-joining-russia-due-to-ukraines-counteroffensive

Quin_Dub · 05-09-2022 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574956#Comment_119574956

Bringing us to a total of 8 Senior Oil executives that have died in unusual circumstances since the beginning of the year.

In late January, Leonid Shulman, a top executive at Russian natural gas giant Gazprom, was found dead in the bathroom of a cottage in the village of Leninsky. The Russian media group RBC reported his death, but did not cite a cause.
On Feb. 25, another Gazprom executive, Alexander Tyulakov, was found dead in the same village as Shulman, this time in a garage. According to the Russian media outlet Novaya Gazeta, investigators found a note near Tyulakov’s body.
On Feb. 28, three days after Tyulakov died, a Russian oil and gas billionaire living in England, Mikhail Watford, was found hanged in the garage of his country estate. At the time, investigators reportedly said Watford’s death was “unexplained,” but did not appear suspicious.
On April 18, a former vice president of Gazprombank, Vladislav Avayev, was found dead in his Moscow apartment, alongside his wife and daughter, who also died. Authorities treated the case as a murder-suicide, Radio Free Europe reported at the time. Gazprombank is Russia’s third-largest bank and has close ties to the energy sector.
On April 19, a former deputy chairman of Novatek, Russia’s largest liquefied natural gas producer, was found dead in a vacation home in Spain. Like Avayev in Moscow, Sergei Protosenya was found with his wife and daughter, who were also deceased. And like Avayev, police investigating the scene said they believed it was a murder-suicide, a theory that Avayev’s surviving son has publicly rejected.
In May, the body of billionaire and former Lukoil executive Alexander Subbotin was discovered in the basement of a country house in the Moscow region. The room where Subbotin died was allegedly used for “Jamaican voodoo rituals,” Russian state media outlet TASS reported, quoting local authorities.
In July, Yury Voronov, founder and CEO of a shipping contractor that services Gazprom’s Arctic projects was found dead of an apparent gunshot wound in a swimming pool at his home in Leninsky, the same elite St. Petersburg gated community where Shulman and Tyulakov died earlier in the year.

Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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