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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You claim to care about the price of energy and our energy security. Vlad Putin is directly responsible for doubling of gas prices and threatening Europes' energy supply.

    So by you choosing to blame renewables for the crisis caused by Putin, you're basically a propaganda mouthpiece for him

    Greta has nothing to do with anything, but it's great to see her dragged out whenever the 'anti greens' feel like they need a distraction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Hold on a second.

    My post was about the cost it takes to deep retrofit a house to then allow the house to be heated by a heat pump efficiently.

    This is a fact.

    Your 10k box will have people taking out loans to pay for said box when the alternative would be a €250 service for their existing gas boiler, or in the worst case scenario 2k for a new boiler.

    You may not see an extra 8k plus the expensive electricity bills as a big deal- but the majority of the population do.

    You still haven’t answered what happens to all the gas boiler maintenance and installation people post 2025.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    If you guys don’t like the posting on this thread why do you read them?

    Why do you continue to post?

    Why continue to link dump?

    Why don’t you acknowledge that these GP measures are at best I’ll thought out and at worst going to leave families in mountains of debt- case in point banning gas and oil boilers post 2025.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    The thoughts of us sending Ryan over to the energy crisis meeting on Friday in truly frightening. We are a great country with many brilliant minds surely we can do better than this???



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    If Russia hadn’t have started a war but Moffat had a couple of weeks of a technical issue that stopped gas to Ireland which coincided with a period of low wind in winter- how reliable would our energy system be?

    Stop trying to deflect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    I am talking about fixing or replacing a part in a perfectly fine boiler.

    You are talking about carrying out massive renovations costing thousands.

    All because the boiler needs a new whatever



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The price of gas went up on this plan too

    I don't have time to trawl through all of the smart meter price plans.

    If you don't like the boiler I linked to yesterday or the day before, there are lots of other electric boilers that can all replace a gas boiler.

    With the price of gas going up exponentially, these types of boilers become more competitive

    If you get one with thermal storage, either in a hot water tank, or dry core storage, you can combine this with a night rate tariff, or solar panels. You don't need to get a '60k heat pump' if you don't want to.

    These are trading off capital costs, vs running costs. Gas and Oil are no longer cheap or reliable, so the costs are going up regardless

    There will need to be state subsidies either way, I'd prefer we subsidise electrification and improved insulation and energy efficiency, than continuing to give 'winter fuel allowances' which are just handouts oil gas and coal



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    It's already started Jingle unfortunately. There is going to have to be a massive decision to be made now from government. Do we prioritise business/industry and keep people in jobs or do we let households freeze and suffer rolling blackouts in the depths of winter. Make no mistake about it the green lunatics have led us to this scenario with their frankly bonkers almost religious insistence on following their policies.

    You do have to wonder how deep Russia has infiltrated the green movement to get us to this point in time though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Sometimes I wonder if this is really example of how simple minded people really think, trying to simplify things they usually do not understand. Or if it is something else and they are actually cleverly malicious like manipulating other simpleminded people.

    Stay with the green agenga and fantasizing about nonexistent technologies which sure will be invented in time to save the earth when enough of carbon tax will be paid. Geopolitics are not your strong suit.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Fyi, every big energy/ fossil fuel corporation has looked at renewables and come to the same conclusion namely that overall the sums do not add up. Now, this varies per country and wind is Ireland's obvious path. Still, if you take every possible parameter into consideration you still end up using fossil fuels to some degree if only for stability.Again, this depends on location. Yes, of course the fossil fuel industry lobbies just like any other industry including the green. That does not per se mean that their arguments can be dismissed right away just like it doesnt mean that the arguments by the greens can. It is a matter of degree and scale. Lose those two and you do become an ideologue. Fossil energy companies of course want to keep market share and they would actually like to get into the green energy market and take a slice and, given their expertise, would be in a great position to transit. But the numbers do not add up. Havent, dont and likely wont in the forseeable future. So, to blame everything on the fossil fuel lobby is besides the point. And we DO have a Green Deal running atm. But i guess you need an enemy to push back against. However, this does not support claims made by the Green position. It is more like 'dont look here, look there'. Well folks, you better look EVERYWHERE.

    Post edited by deholleboom on


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    What are you looking to replace boilers that may only need a small part to get them back working?

    I thought the whole idea was to consume less?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That is true, but in 2008 when Eamon Ryan was Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources they Green Party were so fixated on greenhouse gases that the knock on effects of promoting diesel got much if any consideration. You would hope that they had learned from that rather than dig deeper and cause more problems, but unfortunately that is not the case



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,199 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    So you can't find one. Thanks for confirming. Btw you can easily find a 24 hour gas price lower than that 2 hour "boost" price you think is so great.

    You obviously think that spending thousands on retrofitting for heat pumps, electric boilers and solar panels is viable. The people struggling to put food on the table would not agree.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,199 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The modern green movement is not about reuse or recycle, it's about greatly expanded consumption in the form of electric vehicles, enormous environmental damage from mining for battery components and significantly more electricity usage at home through heat pumps, EVs etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The green movement without question creates alternative industries. The hope is that they are less damaging than the industries that they are looking to replace. But it is certainly not as binary as green zealots like to think. They tend to focus only on one selected goal, such as carbon emissions, and disregard other externalities, whether relating to people or infrastructure or other environmental impacts, in their laser like focus on that single goal

    Eamonn Ryan has increasingly shown this tendency, quite possibly as he knows that this is the (relatively short) period of time in which he will have the strongest hand



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Well Eamon refers to it as "fast tracking" , his words not mine. As for your make believe world that we will be awash with offshore wind come 2030 well that's just fantasy. If you think the Maritime Area Planning (MAP) Act in December 2021 is going to stop residents along the coast objecting and delaying all of this you are more innocent then I thought. Just watch the courts full with objections in the next few years. Anyway thinking the proposed wind farm of dalkey is going to go ahead needs a reality check.... Just watch all the greenies along south Dublin coast lawyer up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    We sent Dustin the turkey to the Eurovision I wonder if he is available Friday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Excellent post.

    Like yourself i would consider myself in the middle and I am in total agreement with everything in your post. Ideological dogmas, especially those attempting to use laws, rules and regulations to coercively forward their agendas, have never ended well without doing a lot of harm before being inevitably consigned to the dustbin.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    So, the EV purchaser - who is generally very wealthy anyways, gets

    • a €5,000 grant to buy the thing,
    • cheap motor tax €120 for the year,
    • a grant to install a charger at their house
    • reduced toll charges on the motorway network
    • and the power companies give them electricity as low as 6c per unit.

    Meanwhile, those working hard on low incomes will try and cook an evening meal for their kids with electricity as high as 39c per unit.

    Fook me, how people are not up in arms about this is beyond me. Where the hell are the EU in sorting out this shyte?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Not to mention the wealthy individual can afford to get their house upgraded with solar panels, heat pumps, triple glazing etc...to keep their bills down. He'll vote green and couldn't give a hoot about the working class guy or gal who is now wondering why they are bothering working at all if they can't afford to keep the roof over their head or heat on.

    I'm also hearing the government is considering giving those on welfare a cash payment bonus around budget time and then the Xmas bonus also. This is getting ridiculous now for the low paid working population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Other than the usual green smugness of more delays adding to our energy security nothing in your reply is even vaguely related to my post.

    Greens are quite good at pushing the "It was a collective government decision, not just a Green Party decision" where it suits. Not so hot when the shoe is on the other foot.

    Eamon Ryan as the relevant Minister was yesterday yet again mouthing off attempting to influence planning application on energy. Government policy on this planning application has been neutral as has been expressed by An Taoiseach, yet somehow for greens Ryan`s behaviour is all fine and dandy. If the shoe was on the other foot and a Government Minister attempted to use their position to influence planning approval the greens would be calling for their head on a plate.

    The hypocrisy of greens really is something to behold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,199 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Low and middle income earners are getting absolutely screwed (again) with this Green agenda. They don't have social welfare so can't get this stuff done for free but also don't have the savings or disposable income to install solar panels, buy an EV or do the deep retrofitting. This government couldn't care less about the working and middle classes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Without doubt there are several vested interests lobbying & spinning hard as regards the energy agendas of the moment. These include the fossil fuel and nuclear industries. But we must always remember that 'Green Tech and Renewables' are lobbying and spinning hard as well. There's big money to be made churning and supplying the market. And our Minister Ryan has not been behind the door is saying that Ireland should be a leader in Green Tech and renewables.

    However there's no free lunch and apart from the reduced carbon emissions, there's undoubtedly a dirty side to Green Tech and Renewables. Whether through mining and processing minerals to make batteries, recycling same and what amounts to environmental vandalism of the both the inland and sea landscapes and habitats.

    That's what needs to be figured out. What level of pollution and risk are we prepared to accept? If you want to simply generate electricity and can handle the risks, nuclear looks a much cleaner industry that renewables.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you think the Maritime Area Planning (MAP) Act in December 2021 is going to stop residents along the coast objecting and delaying all of this you are more innocent then I thought.

    You love your strawman arguments



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I find it remarkable though that the government have not legislated on this. Their silence, lack of official support or otherwise, is a policy position in itself. Leaving this to ABP is just a staggering lack of responsibility from all government. ABP will not even be considering the states energy security in their deliberations….the application withdrew the public interest component. It’s being looked at, pure and simple, as a commercial venture. Hence ER doing his best to agitate. But MM is equally as guilty by his absence



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    On September 5th @ps200306 said “Prices started rising during covid, way before "but Putin".

    And on the same day @ps200306 said “ as prices fell even lower in 2020 due to lack of demand).

    Learn how to read and comprehend what you yourself write.

    O the poor fossil fuel companies can’t afford to explore for new finds🥲 maybe if the put the money the make into exploration like they used to pre 2012 and stop paying massive dividends to there shareholders in order to inflate their share price.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Don't know about some of ye, but I'm looking forward to cleaner air

    • Coal products and manufactured solid fuels must have a smoke emission rate of less than 10 grams per hour – this is the same as currently in force in low smoke zones
    • Manufactured part biomass products must have a smoke emission rate of less than 5 grams per hour
    • Coal products and manufactured solid fuels, including manufactured part biomass products, must have a sulphur content of less than 2% by weight on a dry ash-free basis, and subject to a market assessment, from 1 September 2025 this will be reduced to 1%
    • Fuel products which are 100% biomass products including, wood products and wood logs, supplied in units of two cubic metres or less, must have a moisture content of less than 25% (from 1 September 2025, this will be reduced to less than 20%)
    • Wood logs supplied in units of two cubic metres or more shall be accompanied by a notice outlining the need to store and season wet wood until it is sufficiently dried
    • It will not be possible to sell turf via retail, online or other media, in public houses or other public places




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