Ban on Social Media for Under 18s

06-09-2022 5:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058262165/ban-on-social-media-for-under-18s

Another thread that belongs in After Hours! What are you smoking OP?

Two words sum this up:

1) unenforceable

2) counterproductive

Why not ban it for over 18’s while you are at it?

DoctorEdgeWild · 06-09-2022 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580484#Comment_119580484

On this point:

If an event were to happen and as a result it can be proven that social media, a google or facebook or even telecom company was the cause...

If someone receives a threatening email, should Gmail be considered at fault?

If someone receives abuse over the phone, should Vodafone be considered at fault?

If someone sees the terrible news on the TV, and does something terrible following that, should RTE be considered at fault?

If I write something hateful on a piece of paper and show it to you, should the paper mill be considered at fault?

Social media is just a tool, some users just choose to use that tool for bad purposes. It's very similar to rock and roll, punk, violent games, fantasy books... etc. People always look for the boogeyman to blame when the blame may lie at their own feet.

c.p.w.g.w · 06-09-2022 5:34pm

The actual issue with all this is...poor parenting, when I was young when I was told no and ignored my parents, there was a punishment and I didn't do it again in most cases...

I see kids throwing tantrums when they can't get screen time, only for the parent's to give in, this reinforcing behaviour that throwing tantrums gets me what I want

skinny90 · 06-09-2022 6:24pm

your completely knit picking examples I’ve thrown and ignored on the overal point of my post. The bottom line is tech companies like those I’ve mentioned have loads of reactive measures but very little proactive to combat how children interact in their ecosystems.

in addition given that companies know soo much about us, what we say and what we do and they have the technology available to be more ethical and proactive. They choose not to be tho:

here is the thing, companies won’t do it, there is opportunity to expand on dollars. they already have a solid user base so why would they affect advertising revenue streams

if it was regulated with severer penalties then I bet you they would do more

If you think social media is “just a tool” then there’s little point in having a discussion.

SuperBowserWorld · 06-09-2022 6:39pm

Excellent post OP.

Yes, absolutely.

Social media is an absolute train wreck and kids, society, democracy are the guinea pigs on the train.

I actually think maybe it's too late.

The genie is out of the bottle. I hope I am wrong.

But when parents let their kids watch absolute horrific things online and do and record and publish same online .. I dunno.

And when actors can sway public opinion away from facts and science towards fantasy ... And when computer programs and advertising and corporations can do this ...

It's all a huge random experiment and if survival of the fittest prevails then money and power talks. It's a huge powerful drug we've all become addicted to.

xxxxxxl · 06-09-2022 7:11pm

They tried something like this in Aus IIRC and was gotten around in 15 mins by a 16 year old who shared the hack via a usb.

brokenangel · 06-09-2022 7:19pm

Not sure why you would ban u18's

When you see the carry on of adults on social media and message boards etc it should be a ban on all age groups!!!

06-09-2022 8:12pm

I have 2 daughters, 18 and 24. Never stopped them doing anything, answered any questions they had with facts if they asked me. No "storks" or "heads of cabbage" in our house. Same with alcohol and drugs, wouldn't condone drugs but alcohol was ok with a meal when they were younger. Don't let them spend hours on their phones either.

They have a mature and realistic attitude and don't feel they have to sneak round us and tell us lots of stuff most parents wouldn't get to hear.

There is a rotten puritanical streak in Irish people. It has led to so much misery and abuse in the past. Ironically the woke crowd seem to have taken on this mantle from the Catholic church.

donaghs · 06-09-2022 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580559#Comment_119580559

The answer is kind of, YES. Traditional media like TV and newspapers have to show much more responsibility over their content.

Internet platforms got a sort of legal pass, I.e. they are just the medium not the message. E.g. the US sections 230: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230

“It can’t be done”. Actually, Laws can be changed. But maybe making internet platforms be as responsible as traditional media would probably make them irrelevant, and take away much of the freedom and fun of the internet.

There are other things which can be done if the will is there. I don’t necessarily agree with them all. E.g. have a separate internet domain for porn sites, and require customers to contact their ISPs to opt in. (Maybe we just prefer the anonymous freedoms of the internet, over our responsibilities to kids?)

Make parents responsible for their children's internet usage. If kids break laws, fine the parents.

No solution is ideal, and their will always be gaps, but it’s certainly worth looking at considering how many kids have unrestricted access to everything (and everyone.)

on the point that social media is just like some older threat like “punk” or “fantasy books”, I can assure you that no creeps ever tried to groom me or my friends while using said material! While I have heard all the stories from other parents about creeps on different platforms, bullying etc, but also seen such people with my own eyes on platforms like discord. Etc

Flinty997 · 06-09-2022 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580250#Comment_119580250

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580582#Comment_119580582

We've just had 2yrs of remote school and socializing. Kids have school cloud accounts, email, Teams, Zoom etc.

You will struggle to give them access to stuff they need to access, and not to stuff they shouldn't have access to. Because there is almost zero investment in it. its bit like asking ISP and Phone companies to block spam, calls etc. They say it can't be done. Go one cent over your allowance they seem to able to block that no problem.

The companies have no interest in it, and no ones forcing them to do it.

Flinty997 · 06-09-2022 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580493#Comment_119580493

I guess free for all so. Can I buy a bazooka to go hunting with.

namloc1980 · 06-09-2022 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581428#Comment_119581428

Are you 10 or something?

I guess when you have to reduce yourself to such ludicrous analogies you've lost the argument. 👍

DoctorEdgeWild · 06-09-2022 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581415#Comment_119581415

Maybe they shouldn't be forced to look after other people's children? They have an age limit. They employ moderators to filter out pornographic/violent material. Maybe parents should be more responsible for protecting their kids than Facebook?

Facebook is a private company that exists to make money. I think that's OK.

Flinty997 · 06-09-2022 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581614#Comment_119581614

Well it was hyperbole - exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Point is we do have rules.

Flinty997 · 06-09-2022 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581632#Comment_119581632

So making money trumps having rules.

DoctorEdgeWild · 06-09-2022 9:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581368#Comment_119581368

I disagree with your points in general. Listen to the people who lobbied against punk etc., back in the day. They often cited protecting their children when decrying the boogeyman of the day.

Laws can indeed be changed, I don't think anyone is denying that. The questions are a) Should they be? and b) Is it enforceable?

When you consider than you or I can click a button on our desktop and appear to a website that we are accessing from any country in the world, I'd suggest that b) is extremely difficult.

As for a) I don't think the makers of a shovel should be held responsible if I whack someone over the head with a shovel.

DoctorEdgeWild · 06-09-2022 9:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581655#Comment_119581655

They have rules. They make money operating within these rules.

WE choose to accept these rules when signing up, if we choose to do so.

Strumms · 06-09-2022 9:44pm

Here it is from Meta themselves…

https://about.fb.com/news/2021/07/age-verification/

13 seems like a really irresponsible move… why so young, what makes Facebook think 13 is an appropriate age ? Why not 12 ? What actually influences that cutoff point ‘13’…

the question id be asking… why is it inappropriate for a 12 year old to have a Facebook account but not a 13 year old ? What is the difference ? I’d argue the same risks that exist to a 12 year old exist for a 13 year old… do those same risks exist for a 16 year old ? Probably not. Not on the same scale anyway as 16 year olds are far more mature and will be better attuned to know if something or somebody isn’t right and how to deal with / flag it.

Flinty997 · 06-09-2022 10:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581681#Comment_119581681

Those are not rules. Those are cop out by the tech companies. Platitudes. A sop for the gullible.

06-09-2022 11:18pm

China's ban doesn't work. It never has. It's only a minor inconvenience, and easily bypassed most of the time.

Nor does tackling the companies themselves work, because they'll simply open up another platform to bypass whatever restrictions are put in place, or pay whatever small fines are due, because they can afford to.

Parenting, and how much access minors are given to technology is a major consideration. I certainly understand why parents give them the access. It takes away some of the pressure, and easily occupies the kids attention. And teens generally need to have phones these days. So it really comes down to deciding the kind of society we want for our teens, rather than this passive reactive stance, and then work backwards to help parents.

Nothing else is going to work.

Flinty997 · 07-09-2022 12:09am

Take a dumb Nokia phone. They hard code social media apps. Even on most basic ones they hard code premium games. All this just eats the credit. Then the mobile provider expires the credit, or doesn't allow it to carry over, or turn off mobile data.

Greed is good.

xxxxxxl · 07-09-2022 12:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581428#Comment_119581428

Pretty sure even in the USA you cant either.

07-09-2022 12:34am

I think people are largely ignorant as to how the likes of google, facebook/meta, amazon etc are now so deeply embedded in keeping the internet as it now stands up and running!!!! Remove them and shut down the datacentres and life as we know it grinds to a halt!!!!Even in my own work remove one of those links in the chain and we are in the deep ****.

xxxxxxl · 07-09-2022 12:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582417#Comment_119582417

Wonder how many know when you turn off the smartphone it's not actually off. Only way it is if the battery completely discharged.

Flinty997 · 07-09-2022 12:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582407#Comment_119582407

Any of these do instead ...

https://youtu.be/2eV8N0bUzA0

c.p.w.g.w · 07-09-2022 12:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582434#Comment_119582434

That David Cameron?

Flinty997 · 07-09-2022 12:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582434#Comment_119582434

Called it ..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

xxxxxxl · 07-09-2022 12:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582435#Comment_119582435

Did not watch it all still not what was mentioned. Not dragging this off down a rabbit hole.

One eyed Jack · 07-09-2022 3:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582438#Comment_119582438

It is 😂

The quote was never said by Hitler either -

The Leibniz Institute for Contemporary History, a research organization dedicated to the study of German history of the 20th and 21st century ( here ), confirmed to Reuters these words are misattributed to Hitler. “Whoever invented this quote, it was not Hitler and it has never been written in Mein Kampf”, a spokesperson for the Institute told Reuters on email. “We do not know in which context the author of this post is trying to manipulate a discussion by an invented "Hitler"-quotation,” they added.

…

Some iterations of the claim (visible here) include photo that is not of Adolf Hitler but a photoshopped image of former British Prime Minister David Cameron.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-hitler-freedom-idUSKBN22X1W5

It’s a good example too of the point that I’d be more concerned about adults who have access to the internet, than any concerns I’d have about what anyone under the age of 18 might be exposed to!

Hangdogroad · 18-12-2022 7:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578594#Comment_119578594

Wouldn't be missed.

Ban on Social Media for Under 18s

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