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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But the government have emissions targets on the one hand and are charged with managing our energy security on the other. How a decision to allow the building of an strategically important LNG terminal, even if ultimately developed by private enterprise, is left to an independent planning body and is not a government decision is beyond me tbh

    its different to specific wind farm planning applications, which all fall within a general government strategy of developing our wind infrastructure. Which wind farms and where is then just detail, managed by the planning process

    Do we need an LNG terminal or not? Surely that’s more than just a commercial decision? I find the whole thing utterly farcical



  • Posts: 13,688 Tatiana Plain Clothesline


    McInerney is the best interviewer we've produced in a long time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    LOL. I swear if Ryan went out to the Aras in the morning and shot the President you would be first on here defending him.

    The stated Government policy on the application before ABP by a private company for permission to build an LNG terminal is that it is none of their business and it is a matter for ABP alone. Ryan, contrary to the expressed Government opinion, has once again been shooting off his big mouth attempting to influence that decision.

    It`s disgraceful from a Government Minister going publicly against a collective Government decision for no other reason than like a spoiled child, he didn`t like the decision and feels he can act however he wishes. If any other Minister expressed the opinion they were in favour of that private application you would be the first screaming blue murder.

    After your hilarious attempts at trying to give credence to Ryan`s mutterings on 500 minus communities being allowed to sell and gift turf and for those over 500 it being illegal, it`s clear that you are incapable of being anything other than a Green Party apologist that will defend any of their utterances no matter how inane.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The stated Government policy on the application before ABP by a private company for permission to build an LNG terminal is that it is none of their business and it is a matter for ABP alone.

    Actually the policy is the government are not going to build one but they wouldn't block any private one being built.

    it`s clear that you are incapable of being anything other than a Green Party apologist that will defend any of their utterances no matter how inane.

    Nope, never voted GP in my life. You don't have to be a Green voter to be an environmentalist. There's also several things I disagree with, the GP stance on the M20 for one



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Why are you insisting on missing the forest for the trees ?

    The Government strategy is not to interfere in planning applications for wind or solar farms from private companies, s why should it be any different for a planning application from a private company to build a LNG terminal.

    I have always been of the opinion that we need an LNG terminal, but one built and owned by the State where we could independently source our own supply as well of being able to avail of our share of the LNG deal between the E.U. and U.S. Similar to how were were able to avail of the Covid vaccines.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Yes indeed. Im interested in contrary opinions but if someone keeps on contradicting, ignoring, non assessing, glossing over, non adressing things like, the usual human stuff of platforms like this i often feel like blocking/ignoring them. Im usually reluctant doing that or posting something that highlights inconsistencies in someone's thinking or merely stating falsehoods or posturing wrong conclusions, mainly because that person is already on a certain road and is likely to double down or simply ignoring the message altogether. Letting go is usually the best way. However, i have blocked certain obvious nitwits that continue to display their frailties and are on an overtly agro path, some very recently..



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Actually you may wish to check up on that policy of the Government not going to build an LNG terminal. From what Martin had to say recently it is a policy that needs reconsidering.

    It seems you do not need to be a Green Party voter to be an unmitigated apologist for them either.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because wind and solar are part of our stated climate action strategy. If none got built due to planning denials, the government would have to intervene.

    We should have a state LNG terminal for energy security. Or for the state to say we don’t want one here. But if this does or doesn’t go ahead the government is saying that they don’t care either way despite the implications. Or perhaps if it doesn’t they’ll legislate for one. Who knows. Just seems a perverse and inefficient way of going about things (or just shows a lack of balls to make their own decisions).



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There is a lot I would blame this government for, but not getting involved in planning permission applications (other than the Green tail of the dog doing so) is not one of them.

    If all wind or solar farm applications had been refused by ABP for specific reaons and the Government believed they needed them, then first they would have to address the issues as to why they were refused and legislate for them. Who knows, perhaps that is what they are doing now with this LNG terminal. Martin recently said that consideration will have to be given to LNG projects arising from the security issue that has emerged from Russia`s war in Ukraine.

    Unless, like Ryan, he has also been having little naps and missed it, he will also know by now that our lack of energy security is not just down to the war in Ukraine, something which should greatly add to that consideration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Deleted

    Post edited by Mr. teddywinkles on


  • Registered Users Posts: 82,341 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    The decision on planing for the LNG terminal by New Fortress Energy in Shannon is this Friday. The big driving force not to build it seems to be around the possiblity that fracked gas could be delivered through it. Meanwhile Centrica (Bord Gáis owners) in UK have signed a contract for fracked gas to be supplied to the UK from 2025, we will be getting the very same gas via the pipeline, it's exactly the same tune as we won't build nuclear but we have no problem taking nuclear generated power from UK or France.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306


    What on Earth are you talking about? Prices plummeted in 2020 at the outset of the pandemic. They recovered strongly in 2021 as demand roared back. Putin's adventure wasn't until 2022. What's so hard to understand? I presume this is just deflection from the howler you wrote in your previous post.

    And yeah, everybody screams at the fossil fuel companies to invest in more production when prices are high. US preznits put pressure on the Saudis to open the taps, fearing a backlash from the voting public. Then when prices are stable they introduce anti-fossil measures to please the greenies. Fossil fuel companies are reacting exactly as you would expect in the face of a schizophrenic regulatory environment. They are playing it safe: paying down debts and being cautious about new development. They don't want to get caught with their trousers down like in 2014-15 or 2020.

    Closer to home there are several companies who want to put money into offshore development but they cannot do it because our energy minister is a nutcase.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306



    I agree with you [about Zeihan]. I'm always nervous about people who sound too confident about their own prognostications (especially when their livelihood depends on it). The world is too complicated, with too many feedback mechanisms for that. That said, it's hard not to see a very tough road ahead for China. Demographics are against them. Their property boom was like a drug to the populace, local government and the financial industry. It has led to a contender for the worst case of malinvestment in human history (rivalled only by Western monetary policy since 2008 and Green policies). The CCP under Xi has been acting increasingly erratically in the face of multiple challenges in the last couple of years. I don't think an implosion is impossible, however the CCP has shown itself to be willing to ratchet up repressions to whatever level is necessary to quell any popular revolt.

    Funny enough, your point about Zeihan's assumption of inaction reminds me a lot of climate change prognostications. Those are also predicated on the idea that we will stand around doing nothing. For instance, the "hundreds of millions of people who will be affected by sea level rise" won't just stand there until 2100 waiting for the water to lap up around them. We won't wring our hands about drought-affected regions without also developing tracts in more northerly regions that will open up to cultivation. And so on and on ... unless Green policies scupper our resilience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Biomass looks a better solution to me but is never talked about here, limited planning needed also as it can use the existing infrastructure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    I agree with both but i think Zeihan probably knows the caveats. Yes, he presents his predictions with a certainty but that is not unusual for americans. But i did find his deliberations about demographics, geography and the end of Bretton woods quite convincing and it is hard to come up with alternative roads that lead to a more positive outcome globally through cooperation. The splintered blocks of influence are already increasingly happening.

    And, like yourself, your points about sea level rise i totally share but i think the simile is not a runner , at least for now, mainly because of the wests push of Green Agenda and the time frame connected to it. There is an almost total disconnect there. But on the other hand, reality bites hard enough. It is interesting to see the two main ideas being assessed recently namely on one side the doubling down of the Green agenda and on the other side the opposite (and in my eyes the more sensible one) a reassessment of energy policy where green energy is seen as part of a mix that includes fossil fuels and which presents a flexible time frame in context with the current energy crisis. It is going to be interesting to see where Europe is going with this. In my opinion Germany is the key factor. They are in serious trouble. Not for the first time of course. If they decide to keep their nuclear plants going with some gas and coal in the mix to deal with the crisis it will lead to other countries following the same path. France already is a nuclear energy country so can go more green without much interference. But if Germany doubles down on the Green agenda without nuclear there is going to be mayhem in the streets. All in all i see the green agenda getting less and less over time with uncertainty growing. That is the positive i take from it. Even though countries have tied themselves legally to the Green agenda, if Germany takes the sensible approach it is hard to see courts putting fines on them that can be enforced Together with massive protests in the streets everywhere in the EU and rest of the world it is hard to see politicians maintaining the green stance. That is my hope.

    We will adapt, over time. No revolutions needed, green or otherwise.

    As for Ireland, the stringent rules about oil, coal and wood, what you are aloud to burn in your home, the timeframe attached to this has got to go. Now. You cannot enforce these things in the current energy crisis with rampant inflation. It is inhumaine, bureaucratically and ideologically driven and hurts people directly. It also does nothing to eleviate global climate issues. It is mindbogglingly stupid..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are you really linking to an article where the author is listed as......Tyler Durden 😳



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Biomass is a part of Ireland's energy mix. The best types of biomass are inedible waste products that don't compete for land space and are often very cheap or even free as they would otherwise need to be landfilled. 'Energy crops' are very dependent on the market. Farmers need to be able to generate an income, so they only become viable when the price of energy is high, so Biomass could well be a good source of reserve fuel to use as backup for when energy supply is low (causing higher prices), but that would need to be planned in advance as it takes time for the farmers to grow the crops and then the fuel would need to be stored somewhere until it is needed. There's also the risk that we could end up relying on foreign imports of biomass, and then the further risk that we'd go with the cheapest source, which is usually the least sustainable)

    It is a part of our energy solution, but it is by no means capable of supplying all of Ireland's energy. The SEAI's most optimistic guess is that domestic biomass production could be up to a maximum of 30% of our energy demand, so it's definitely worth doing and will be a key part of our energy mix in the future, but it doesn't replace the need for wind, solar, interconnectors, storage, hydro etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,035 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    What are your opinions on the content of the article? The article backed up with links and references?

    Or are you doing as you often do, and strawmanning about how you wont read or cant trust publication X because.. reasons.

    (Also ZeroHedge has always used 'Tyler Durden' as a penname for articles, since the site is first and foremost a news aggregator, so the authors name is largely irrelevant, as the news itself is sourced from elsewhere. Hence the external links in the article.)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Clueless?

    It's quite sensible to ask people to take measures that they'd barely notice individually, that collectively reduce peak demand at a time of a potential energy shortage. Don't turn on your tumble dryer until 7:30pm. Your life is barely affected, if a million people take similar actions, that helps the grid a lot

    Ultimately, battery storage will do this, but we don't have them installed yet, by next year we'll be in a better place.

    Also, he is on Prime time to communicate with the public. There are other forums for communicating with industry and the grid operators and stakeholders



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    I suggest you stop communicating with those not addressing the issue itself. If they are not able to discuss the arguments of a subject you know they are deflecting. Highlighting that will not fix it but will lead to doubling down. It is what ideologues do. Blinkers on, narrow focus, ignore everything that does not compute with the MESSAGE. And they will wear their ignorance as a hallmark of moral virtue AND throw it in your face



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Pointless engaging with these two.



  • Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭DaSchmo


    Does anyone else get the feeling that the coming energy crisis will be used by people with certain ideological positions to push through unpopular policies they've always wanted under cover?

    I strongly suspected for example that Covid was used as cover by the notoriously anti car DCC (particularly the head of the place) to change traffic light sequences, road layouts etc to the detriment of drivers

    Now we have Ryan pushing for 19c heating limit in public buildings - will be interesting to see what else is to come this winter...




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    DCC and other councils were quite blatant about implementing anti - car measures in the guise of "social distancing". Quite distasteful TBH but there's plenty of cheerleaders here. I'd nearly put money on the speed limit on motorways being reduced very soon to "save energy".



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thanks for the info on the moniker

    As for the article, I am not concerned with Belgian politics so its of no interest to me



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper



    I live in SD so are you calling me a NIMBI ;-) The plan of Dublin Bay has the shore side connection within 500M of my house. I'm still all for it.

    I'm all for offshore wind, I don't like onshore wind it's causes to many problems for people living nearby. If you want on shore wind you have to accept that every house with in 500M will be unlivable and every house with in 1KM will be affected at times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    That makes sense. In the sense that it makes sense to remain ignorant about these things in general. It comes with the package so to speak..



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Imo I think you will be in the minority in that area, I would be surprised if it went ahead. I remember reading a UK times article earlier in the year about some group in dalkey being against it, it's behind a pay wall though so can't share it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    I think ive already read that in an article about government policy. I am not against that policy per se and neither about the proposal to limit public indoor facilities to 19C. It makes sense to me and im not ideologically opposed. When they start to put sanctions on individuals concerning energy and push green thinking beyond cost benefit analysis for both individuals and the general public in outrageous policies they need to be stopped.



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