Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

I wouldn't have voted for a SF-FF government, but I would have accepted that we, the people, would have voted for a SF-FF government, and that it was a perfectly acceptable democratic outcome. That is where we differ.

Yes, you have said that the view is out there, and I have explained why such a view is both subversive and anti-democratic.

FF won't go into government as a junior party to anyone. Rotating Taoiseach, equal Ministries, that is the price they will demand. If SF twice their size give them that, SF will look weak. FG, which I expect to be a slightly bigger party, could afford to be magnaminous, particularly if they get more on policy.

FG and FF's view that SF are unfit for government is not what I was saying. In fact, nobody has mentioned that. Your response is bizarre.

I was pointing out that a view that the current government lacks a democratic mandate is both undemocratic and subversive, as well as being untrue.

Why are you introducing a strawman argument at this point?

Who said the 'current government lacks a mandate', I never said that was the view.

I said the view was that FF and FG conspired to lock a party out of power or to hold onto it themselves. They are entitled to do that, but they are also entitled to be criticised for it.

I am not aware of many who hold the view that the government 'lack a mandate'.

Are you trying too hard to find something 'subversive' maybe?

Just read the first sentence tbh.

SF votes are as valuable as yours. They have 36% and rising in the polls.

That is having an effect on the hearts and minds of FF. To say otherwise is delusional.

There is no future for FF in a FF FG coalition.

That's your opinion...so what?

Unless you are going to round up these subversives for re-education, it's of no import what you think of it.

The view is there and exists. And I am discussing it's impact.

😁😁 'Leading'? Is that higher than a 'bot'? 😁

FF are a populist party, always have been, SF are a populist party, its obvious these two will get into bed together and destroy the countries finances again circa the Haughey and Bertie years.

The voting population of Ireland have shown time and again they only care about their pocket today, next year is a different land and once again they will vote accordingly. I wish it wasn't so, but in my 51 years on this earth its always been so with very few exceptions - the "Tallaght Strategy" being pretty much the only time I can recall that we put on our big boy pants and actually did the right thing without the likes of the ECB forcing us too.

I wish there was a "remind me of this post on x date" function on boards.ie because some here will vilify me for saying this but the country will vote in due course and I'll either have to eat crow or not.

FF have said they will discuss a coalition.

It will come down to the 'programme for government' as it always does.

Nobody will be railroaded, calm down.

Well you haven't denied what is the overall SF objective - to be in control of power in both the Republic and NI.

It's a reasonable objective on paper but one that many a voter both down south and up north is very wary of.

Be alright Furze.

I'm sure there will be plenty that will throw their hats in the ring to lead a UI.

All of them will have a right to be the main party and I'm sure they won't have the support of all.

Let's face it, Fianna Fail's best hope for the next election (outside of an unrealistic dream of an overall majority or being the senior party in a coalition themselves) is for Sinn Fein to form a government with a motley crew of the left. That way when that coalition collapses, the floating voters who abandon Sinn Fein for under-delivering (which is inevitable given the populist rhetoric which has Sinn Fein doing so well in the polls) will either stay home on election day or may be woo'd back to Fianna Fail's less grandiose form of populism.

There may be some in the party (Éamon Ó Cuív and the like) who would consider a power-sharing arrangement with Sinn Fein akin to what they currently have with Fine Gael but I'm not convinced they represent a majority of the party and Sinn Fein will need to change their approach to win over a majority (along the lines I alluded to already i.e. demonstrating that they're willing and able to compromise). Even then, it'll be a hard sell to many, if not most, in Fianna Fail as going into government with Sinn Fein is a massive risk for them given the disdain their core voters have for the "other" Republican Party, Sinn Fein's lack of experience in government, the inevitability of them under-delivering on their promises and the likelihood they'll try to blame their coalition partner for that.

There may be no future for FF in a FF/FG coalition, but I'm not convinced there's one for them in a FF/SF coalition either...

You have made a good point, the only party that FF members hate more than FG is SF.

Opposition with FG would not favour FF and the desire to make themselves a distinct entity. They'd just sound the same.

FF are in between a rock and a hard place.