Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

OwlsZat · 09-09-2022 2:23pm

Have heard indirectly from a AGS member working the review that an associate of Daniel is the new prime suspect. No idea the progress beyond that.

tibruit · 09-09-2022 2:27pm

So currently Marie says that the man from the three sightings was the same man, she has identified him as an associate of Daniel Tuscan Du Plantier from a photograph and some gardaí headed off to France to investigate. Her initial contact with gardaí and the resulting statement made on December 27th only listed two sightings. The first was on Saturday December 22nd. She says that Sophie came into her shop that afternoon and she remembered that a man in black was standing across the street at around the same time. She later identified this man as Ian Bailey. She has since withdrawn this identification.

There is no doubt Sophie was in the village that afternoon and Bailey concedes he was there too. But were they both there at exactly the same time and was Bailey actually wearing clothes that matched the description Marie gave of the man across the street from her shop? West Cork Podcast interviewed a local woman named Ceri Williams. She was in the village that afternoon. Episode 7, 12 minutes in.

"Well there isn`t really an awful lot to tell. I mean I...they weren`t together, I didn`t see them together at all. There were loads of people out shopping and she came out of the Spar and literally walked into us, or we walked into her....Sophie did. I clocked that he was on the other side of the street. This was in the days when he had his long black trenchcoat and his big boots and his staff. I always noticed him."

saabsaab · 09-09-2022 3:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595541#Comment_119595541

Interesting. I wonder where this line will lead?

jimwallace197 · 09-09-2022 6:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595563#Comment_119595563

Its gas with you, I guess theres always at least one on every thread. You pick and choose what MF said. To break it down, what motivation would she have for lying for Bailey??? while its very clear what motivation she had to lie for the gards.

I wouldnt believe a word from many of these locals, the gards were going around the community consistently saying that Bailey murdered STDP 100%. They probably thought they were helping their local community by pointing the finger at him.

I can imagine you running off & going very quiet if the perpetrator turns out out to be someone other than Bailey.

saabsaab · 09-09-2022 6:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595541#Comment_119595541

Probably traced some DNA as French?

tinytobe · 09-09-2022 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595954#Comment_119595954

Apparently nowhere.

The Guards have been following up this line of enquiry in France for many months now. Apparently they have new DNA evidence or options to extract DNA from the cavity block.

I would largely guess the Guards won't have any authority in France, the French police will hardly help them, and the French will certainly not want their pride hurt, if they really discover that Bailey isn't the killer, - plus all the laughing about their courts. Also, if it's a former close friend of Daniel's, he's probably well protected and connected.

I don't think the French would ever revert their court decision, unless an EU court of law overrules them.

I also wouldn't give anything about Marie Farrell, or what she thinks, says or whom she can or can't identify in a picture. She's hardly credible.

tibruit · 09-09-2022 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596693#Comment_119596693

Nah....I just think that there is enough corroborating evidence to suggest that Marie`s first statement given on December 27th is very credible and that it was Bailey. This was given at a time when gardaí hadn`t focused in solely on him. In fact West Cork Podcast has said that gardaí had a list of 53 suspects in the early stages of the investigation and you also have to remember that for all that Marie has said in the intervening years, she has never suggested that gardaí coerced her to invent a story about a man hanging around outside her shop when Sophie was inside. All the evidence (apart from a mistaken guess at height) suggests this man was Bailey. He was also loitering while Sophie was in Spar.

flanna01 · 09-09-2022 9:40pm

It's totally irrelevant what Maria Farrell seen, or thought she seen..

There's not a court in the land that would entertain her...

Her statements and eye witness accounts are worthless, as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

tibruit · 09-09-2022 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596693#Comment_119596693

Motivation to lie for Bailey? First of all she had been living in fear of him. The boys in blue had assured her he was going to be put away and he wasn`t. So she was naive enough to think that once she changed her story and said it wasn`t Bailey, he would be off the hook, off her back and it would all go away.

Once Bailey had her onside he sued the Gardaí in 2014. Geraldine O`Brien was a friend of Marie`s and testified in that case. She said Farrell had told her..."there was a case coming up that Mr Bailey was involved in and that she was going to be a witness. She was told that he would receive substantial amounts of money....She said a couple of million...Then she said she would probably get something from that too."

Marie testified. She named a dead man as her lover boy. She came up with a few titbits that she had never mentioned before that she thought would help the case. The maddest one being she suddenly remembered shiny buttons on the coat at Kealfada. So you think that Marie lied for kickbacks from the gardaí and wouldn`t have lied for a kickback from Bailey. Yeah right.

tinytobe · 09-09-2022 10:54pm

I would suggest the theory that Marie Farrell killed Sophie.

Marie's husband had a casual affair with Sophie, Marie found out about it and confronted Sophie.

The conversation got out of hand, and Marie picked whatever she found around, which happened to be a cavity block.

It is just a theory....

saabsaab · 09-09-2022 10:55pm

Read that there are only 3 reasons for killing.

1.Greed (robbery)

2.Lust

and

3.Power/Control

Probably an over simplification but going with it..

Probably rule out 1 amd 2 in this case so that leaves 3?

Xander10 · 09-09-2022 10:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597949#Comment_119597949

Why would you rule out 1 ?

saabsaab · 09-09-2022 11:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597969#Comment_119597969

No money taken? or anything of value, even the wine bottle was thrown away.

tinytobe · 09-09-2022 11:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597949#Comment_119597949

I'd say:

1) drugs or drug related ( smuggling going on in the area, and whoever was involved )

2) financial and assets ( the husband wanting to avoid a costly divorce )

3) sexual ( any man, casual lover, avenging lover, even the wife of a cheating husband )

maybe 4) random act, madman

I doubt that robbery or a robbery gone wrong would have been the motive, - there is nothing much worth in the house robbing. And even if one wanted to rob something he would have waited until Sophie was gone, picked the lock and robbed whatever he wanted to rob....

Xander10 · 09-09-2022 11:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598024#Comment_119598024

If there was an expensive divorce on the horizon, then money could have been a motive.

tinytobe · 10-09-2022 12:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598070#Comment_119598070

Husband is usually suspect number one, if wife is murdered.

saabsaab · 10-09-2022 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598217#Comment_119598217

Yes. However he wasn't even in the country at the time.

Gussie Scrotch · 10-09-2022 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598217#Comment_119598217

Yes, statistically, the murder of women is most frequently perpetrated by an intimate partner, husband, lover, ex etc.

There are a number of interesting elements of this case which may indicate/suggest the involvement of DDP.

A divorce was in the offing and Daniel stood to benefit financially.

Daniel's refusal to come to Ireland.

The late phone call.

Daniel had a lover, who he married shortly after Sophie's demise.

Marie Farrell's ID of his associate in Schull at the time.

The discarded bottle of wine.

The absence of any other obvious motive.

saabsaab · 10-09-2022 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599209#Comment_119599209

Remember he was French and it is very common to have a mistress for a man in his position there so it might not have been an issue. The wine bottle is odd and I'd say related to her killing somehow but would a French man throw away an expensive, unopened bottle of wine?

Gussie Scrotch · 10-09-2022 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599257#Comment_119599257

Yes, that's true.

But motive is key. That's one reason I can't accept the Baily theory.

She wasn't robbed, she wasn't raped, I don't buy the drugs link, the ongoing dispute with Alfie seems too trivial.

And there is always a motive.

Deeec · 10-09-2022 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599209#Comment_119599209

Also Daniel was one of the few people who knew Sophie was alone. It was the perfect opportunity if he was planning to have her murdered by a hitman.

Who in West Cork would have known she was alone - the Hellens and the Ungerers for sure, maybe Alfie/Shirley (although they may not have known). Nobody else including Bailey would have known she was alone in the house.

Gussie Scrotch · 10-09-2022 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599307#Comment_119599307

Yes, good point.

There is also the question of why she actually made the visit. In the depths of Winter, alone, just before Christmas.

Maybe she sensed danger at home and needed to get away?

tinytobe · 10-09-2022 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599209#Comment_119599209

Glad to see that the conversation finally goes towards motive.

Daniel had by far the biggest financial motive for the killing. Daniel also had financial problems and a costly and messy divorce will certainly not have pleased his new girl as well. How he had that killing done, how he'd gotten in touch with a contract killer is something else. I would guess, it wasn't directly, but through a friend he knew? Or a friend of a friend....

One other part is that the Toscan Du Plantier family apparently also had influence in France, perverting the course of justice and possibly the investigation in France resulting in sentencing Bailey without any connection of evidence to the crime.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599288#Comment_119599288

Same here. Bailey had no motive, certainly not financial, and most likely not sexual. If Bailey wanted to cheat, why wait for 5 months or so for Sophie to come to her cottage? He probably had better and much quicker choices locally, also, he never made a pass ( as far as we know ) at one of Jules daughters. Bailey may have had his issues with alcohol and beating his partner Jules, but I don't think he ever cheated in that relationship? On the night of the murder he would have hiked for one hour, one way, kill Sophie leave no traces of anything at all, return, possibly to his studio, clean up, burn the clothes and act to Jules and her daughters as if nothing as happened. Probably all a difficult task after more than a couple of drinks in the pub at the same evening.

The drug theory is still a possibility, but I find it also a bit unlikely. Maybe Sophie knew something saw something, maybe Alfie and Leo were in on something, muscling in, together with some locally bent Guards. However I don't think any of them would have made a good amount of money with drugs as well, - their lifestyle wasn't out of the ordinary, no fast luxury cars, etc... Leo Bolger certainly didn't live in luxury, as far as I know. Only thing that stands out is that Alfie and Shirley stated not hearing anything at all.

I also see a property dispute as too trivial or on whether the gate was open or closed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599378#Comment_119599378

She may have been in touch with the Ungerers and certainly with Hellens, from France, and they may have known with certainty, when she would be at the cottage. I doubt she was much in contact with Alfie and Shirley and the Richardsons were probably as rarely at the cottage as Sophie was. If they ever met, it was seldom, I'd suggest.

I often suspected, she wanted to prepare the house to live in longer, for a possible legal separation from her husband? Thus she wanted the heating to get fixed soon? Any separation from her husband most likely would have meant leaving her job, so a move to Ireland may have been a possible plan / a way out?

On the other had, if she really sensed imminent danger she would have taken her son with her. He was still under age, and I am sure, Sophie would have wanted her son with her. Even though Daniel wasn't the father, I am sure, legally he would have had some say in the matter. Mothers can rarely live with the thought of her son being taken from her in case of separation or divorce.

saabsaab · 10-09-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599518#Comment_119599518

Yet from some reports she sensed that she was under some threat. She didn't want to come there alone was speaking about death and that book! Perhaps the missing 'diaries' would have thrown some light on it?

tibruit · 10-09-2022 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599209#Comment_119599209

She had a tree planted outside his office as a Christmas present and they had planned a trip together to Africa in the new year.

jimwallace197 · 10-09-2022 2:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597604#Comment_119597604

So basically your point is, is that she was so afraid of Bailey, she thought lying for him in his trial was the correct way to deal with that rather than following through on her original statements which were inaccurate & the gards clearly induced her to make.

Aswell as this, she wanted to make a big of extra cash so she thought it be wise to lie for someone in his trial against the state, someone who according to you, she believed had murdered a woman.

The on top of this, instead of coming out years later & saying that Bailey was really the one she saw, that she is terrified of him because she would have good reason to be if he did commit the murder, she turns around and says she has no issue with Bailey(actually feels sorry for him) but that she's actually terrified of the gards because she believes they're capable of anything.

So all this picking and choosing of which Marie Farrells statements to use is nonsense. She has zero credibility about what she did or didnt see. But if someone was going to believe her, I'd be alot more inclined to agree with her most recent comments & interviews where she backs Bailey. Because, I dont know about you, but id prefer a washed up drunken poet as an enemy down in West Cork rather than a whole police force.

jimwallace197 · 10-09-2022 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599307#Comment_119599307

Yes, I think this is a key part of the investigation. The perpetrator would've had to have good reason to believe she was home alone or most likely to be. She often brought family or friends with her. If it was Bailey, he would have had to have heard it from someone, but surely this person would have come forward by now as only really a select few people would have known & they've all been interviewed.

Its funny how nobody else in the community ever said Bailey rocked up to their doors in the early hours of the morning propositioning them & then getting violent if they rejected his advances. He certainly hasnt had form for it either before or after the murder.

So whos the list of people that knew she would definitely be home alone.

Her husband & by extension a possible hitman
The Ungerers
Alfie Lyons & Shirley Foster
Relatives & close friends of STDP back in France
The Local publican who chatted with her hours before her murder.
The Hellens
Possibly the gards or a gard if she was making complaints to them
Other neighbours who may have spotted her alone in the days before the murder.

Not really a long list, maybe theres a few more. Hopefully one of the questions those people were asked was who did they mention it to, that she alone here.

tibruit · 10-09-2022 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599917#Comment_119599917

Sure aren`t you picking and choosing? I`m just accepting her first statement. The evidence is there. Ceri Williams has Bailey loitering across the street in dark clothing when Sophie was in Spar. This would have been only minutes either before or after Sophie visited Marie`s shop. A number of witnesses say that Bailey left the Murphy house on the Airhill Road early the following morning and that`s where Marie saw the same man hitching. It isn`t rocket science. The man she saw was clearly Bailey and there are obvious reasons as to why she later withdrew this identification. A local that was interviewed in one of the documentaries said that a number of people moved out of the area because they were afraid of Bailey. Marie would have been afraid of him for sure and made allegations that he was threatening her.

Gussie Scrotch · 10-09-2022 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599848#Comment_119599848

Murdered French beauty Sophie Toscan du Plantier was caught up in an amazing love triangle, the Mirror can reveal today.

The petite TV scriptwriter had been sleeping with:

Her current husband, millionaire French film producer Daniel

Her first husband Pierre Baudey

And a secret French lover.

Last summer Sophie announced to her Irish housekeeper Josie Helen that she'd left 56-year- old Daniel and was back with Pierre, the father of her 15-year-old son. She moved house to be with Pierre in Paris.

But while she was making plans to divorce Daniel, she began seeing the third man.

And in another twist, the 38-year-old started seeing Daniel again in the weeks before she was brutally killed.

They had planned to take a holiday in Senegal on Christmas Eve to sort out their lives.

Close pal Josie revealed: "Sophie told me she'd left Daniel and wanted to remarry Pierre.

"She still loved her first husband very much and wanted to be back with him for the sake of her son.

"She was in the process of divorcing Daniel when she was killed."

But detectives yesterday confirmed Sophie had a third man in her life.

Gardai won't reveal his name but confirmed he is to be interviewed a second time by French police.

All three of Sophie's lovers have been asked to account for their movements around Monday, December 23 - the day she was found battered to death in remote West Cork.

jimwallace197 · 10-09-2022 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599987#Comment_119599987

Im not giving her any credibility at all. You're the one thats using her first statement which was then clearly retracted & then which she further claimed she was heavily induced to make by the gards pointing the finger at bailey. So if were going to believe anything MF says, why on earth would we believe the original statement. Doesnt add up.

Im not giving the local statements around that time much credibility either as they were being consistently told that Bailey was the murderer and they just needed a little help to get it over the line. Its a bit convenient this supposed sighting from Ceri Williams puts Bailey exactly where he would have supposedly saw STDP. Why on earth would he just loitering on the street like that? sizing up his potential victim is it😂 The gards fully believed if they just managed to get enough to charge Bailey, that'd have him then. They'd make sure of that with evidence tampering, corruption, bribing of potential witnesses. They thought the trial would take of it itself then.

How can you clearly not see the blatant corruption that went on in this investigation, the bandon statements, the numerous witness accounts, the tearing of pages from the evidence book, refusal of gards to cooperate with GSOC amongst many many other things. Even the DPP at the time commented on this & total bias the gards had shown in the investigation against Bailey. This is well known but you choose to ignore it.

Again, im not saying that Bailey is 100% innocent, I have some doubts myself but I try and keep an open mind about it. But when an investigation is as thoroughly flawed and as biased as this, its hard to believe anything out of the gards some of the locals. Im sure the fear in the local community must have been palpable at the time that a potential serial killer was on the loose & in cases like that, you'll always find a few people willing to come forward to put the 'bad guy' away.

Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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